Neji VS Sasuke

Originally posted by yungz22
cmon do you really think neji will react that fast. i understand if he knew about or seen the jutsu but i doubt he would be anle to dodge that fast if he had never seen or even heard bout this jutsu

But he really doesn't know about Amaterasu sure, but a black vortex near him I would think Kaiten would be his first move. And it's just a matter of could he do it in time without knowing what it was.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, Sasuke has a lot more chakra than Neji anyway 😛. He'll keep spamming attacks and forcing Neji to use his Kaiten. Then, he'll end it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nahh, Oro is pretty knowledgeable on Konoha. He probably researched the Byakugan's abilities and the Hyuuga style of Taijutsu before he settled on the Sharingan.
Kidomaru heard of Jyuuken from Orochimaru, and Kidomaru wasn't Oro's favourite. Besides, two & a half years passed between Pt1 and 2, Oro must have acquired more info during that time don't you think?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Right, I forgot >__>.
Well, if he has a '360 degree field of vision', wouldn't he technically still be looking at Sasuke in the eye?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
As for Amaterasu, I doubt Neji will be able to deflect the amount of black flames that Sasuke shot at Kirabi, even with Kaiten.
Also, Neji is somewhat discernible within the Kaiten. It's also nothing but spinning chakra. Chances are that Sasuke will be able to see Neji through it, considering Chakra isn't physical, solid, and opaque.

It won't be a black flame "near him", it will be a black flame that appears directly on him, since he's what Sasuke's looking at.

Eh, there really is no way to prove what I'm trying to say right so I'll just stop. Kaiten is basically just blocking Amaterasu by putting something in front of Sasuke's face since Amaterasu hasn't ever been shown to hit something through something else. Like how if Sasuke looks at Gaara, and starts Amaterasu, and Gaara blocks with sand. Would you say it still hits Gaara or would it hit the sand

Originally posted by Kento
Eh cause Sasuke has plot induced chakra levels. But you got to admit the Hyuuga, at least Neji and Hiashi have godly amounts of chakra. They expel pure chakra in extremely large doses, and Neji has done it like three or four times in one battle back in part 1.

Hard to say if Sasuke's chakra is plot-induced, since technically, everyone's level of chakra is plot-induced. I sort of agree with you, don't get me wrong, but he is still shown to have a very high amount of chakra.

As for the Hyuugas, yeah, they have a high amount of chakra. I don't know if it is 'godly' though, since they have excellent chakra control and can detect chakra just as well too. So it's possible they didn't put a whole lot of chakra, but just enough.

Originally posted by Kento
Well who's to say that Kakashi and Oro don't have the same knowledge. Both seen what Neji, and Byakugan can do during the prelims. We don't really know if Oro has any vast knowledge on it. They are one of the more secret clans. Keep to themselves, and even seem to have their own set of rules amongst themselves, and keep everything in family.

For one, Oro is someone who loves to have knowledge, and he probably researched the abilities of the Byakugan. He was able to obtain info on the Sharingan somehow. It most likely was before the massacre, and the Uchiha are a clan that also safeguards its secrets, not to the extent of the Hyuuga though.

True, they are secretive, but my point was that you can't just assume Sasuke will be walking into this fight with no knowledge. He'll at least know that entering close combat with Neji without Susano'o would be the equivalent of stepping into a pool of sharks while covered in blood.

Originally posted by Kento
Ya know I've always wondered that myself.

Yeah. It's possible he still has to focus his sight to properly see Sasuke much like we focus with our eyes, but we can't really know for sure.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke may see him slightly but Amaterasu doesn't appear through things. And Kaiten is a solid wall of chakra. Hiashi knocked out a whole squad of ninja with just Kaiten. Even then Katon isn't solid but Itachi's Amaterasu didn't go through it and hit Sasuke. Though that's probably not a good example as Itachi didn't want to hit Sasuke.

It is still chakra, and the Sharingan can see chakra and most likely see through chakra as well. Besides, there are times when the Sharingan is shown to be able to see through muscle and perhaps bone >__>.
It only appears solid because the user is spinning rapidly and is able to stop everything.
Would Neji really be able to deflect nearly the same amount of black flames that Sasuke used against the Hachibi? He can't keep spinning forever.

Also, nothing to say about the Hawk summon? You know that's all Sasuke needs to punk Neji, along with Kirin 😛.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hard to say if Sasuke's chakra is plot-induced, since technically, everyone's level of chakra is plot-induced. I sort of agree with you, don't get me wrong, but he is still shown to have a very high amount of chakra.

As for the Hyuugas, yeah, they have a high amount of chakra. I don't know if it is 'godly' though, since they have excellent chakra control and can detect chakra just as well too. So it's possible they didn't put a whole lot of chakra, but just enough.

Wasn't Kaiten said to be dangerous because of how much chakra it uses?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
For one, Oro is someone who loves to have knowledge, and he probably researched the abilities of the Byakugan. He was able to obtain info on the Sharingan somehow. It most likely was before the massacre, and the Uchiha are a clan that also safeguards its secrets, not to the extent of the Hyuuga though.

True, they are secretive, but my point was that you can't just assume Sasuke will be walking into this fight with no knowledge. He'll at least know that entering close combat with Neji without Susano'o would be the equivalent of stepping into a pool of sharks while covered in blood.

He may have some common knowledge but it's not like Sasuke's going to intend to let Neji hit him even if he didn't.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It is still chakra, and the Sharingan can see chakra and most likely see through chakra as well. Besides, there are times when the Sharingan is shown to be able to see through muscle and perhaps bone >__>.
It only appears solid because the user is spinning rapidly and is able to stop everything.
Would Neji really be able to deflect nearly the same amount of black flames that Sasuke used against the Hachibi? He can't keep spinning forever.

Also, nothing to say about the Hawk summon? You know that's all Sasuke needs to punk Neji, along with Kirin 😛.

Pft Hawk summons get caught in 64 palms because they fail that much. Snake are cooler.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh, there really is no way to prove what I'm trying to say right so I'll just stop. Kaiten is basically just blocking Amaterasu by putting something in front of Sasuke's face since Amaterasu hasn't ever been shown to hit something through something else. Like how if Sasuke looks at Gaara, and starts Amaterasu, and Gaara blocks with sand. Would you say it still hits Gaara or would it hit the sand

Well hold on, what Sasuke used against Gaara wasn't Amaterasu, it was an Enton. An Enton manipulates already existing flames (and thus has to move to the target). Amaterasu just makes it appear at the target.

sasuke will win

Originally posted by Kento
lol Yes, everybody has plot-induced chakra but usually those levels are actually shown regularly. Kakashi, and Shikamaru pretty much both use up their chakra in one fight. Kakashi gets bed-ridden using sharingan and even died, and every fight before the time skip Shika ran out of chakra each fight. And even Itachi had to rest pre-time skip after using two MS moves in a row, and could only use a few MS moves in one fight. Sasuke fought through five people with MS move spam.

Wasn't Kaiten said to be dangerous because of how much chakra it uses?

Earlier against Deidara, he used a bunch of Chidori moves, snake summons, hurt himself tremendously, and then managed to summon a huge-ass snake and use a genjutsu on it. Sasuke has high levels of chakra in pt 2, that much you cannot deny. Saying it's plot induced is perhaps just your hatred for the douche 😛.
Granted, he ran out rather quickly against Itachi, though he did perform that oral rebirth tech, and was using some chakra to hold back Oro. He must have used up a bunch of chakra when trying to overcome Tsukiyomi as well.

Besides, against the Kages, he used Amaterasu twice (once against the Raikage, and once for the Entons I presume), and then the Enton techniques. Entons use the black flames that have already appeared, so they don't drain a huge amount of of chakra.
I think Susano'o drains more of your life-force than your chakra. I also think those two (l.f and chakra) are different.

Dunno, but it uses a fairly large amount of Chakra. Guess Neji is probably low in the upper echelon (i.e. in the upper tier, but low in said tier)
Also, damn, the Branch family must have been incredibly weak before 😐. They weren't allowed to even learn Kaiten or the other techniques.

Originally posted by Kento
I guess it's possible he does but unlike the sharingan, which Oro wants simply for the fact it copies jutsu, which is widely known anyway, the byakugan has no real ability that Oro would want.

He may have some common knowledge but it's not like Sasuke's going to intend to let Neji hit him even if he didn't.

Doesn't mean that he wouldn't have researched it at some point. Kidomaru heard about what Jyuuken could do from Oro. That was a few years back, and Kidomaru wasn't his favourite sex slave like Sasuke was.

Not too sure about that. If he had zero knowledge, he'd probably try to use his sword first. Also, does Madara count? He definitely should have solid knowledge on the Byakugan IMO.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh, It spreads out on what it hits, and quickly engulfs it. There really is no set size. So Neji doesn't have to deal with Hachibi covering amounts.

Pft Hawk summons get caught in 64 palms because they fail that much. Snake are cooler.

I won't even argue against that as now that I think about it, Sasuke wouldn't even use Tailed-beast engulfing amounts against Neji. He'd probably use the same amount that he used on Raikage.
I don't know if Neji has the reaction time to stop Amaterasu, provided he doesn't already have Kaiten up. Amaterasu appears on the target if there is no barrier, and Neji doesn't have the reflexes that the Raikage does.

Pahh, Neji wishes he had a summon as cool as Snakes and Hawks 😛.

~ Also, mind explaining this page? Karin seems to think that Sasuke and herself might be caught in a genjutsu, despite Danzou's chakra source being singular & where Karin saw Danzou.
Don't forget, Karin's possibly the best sensor in the manga.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/477-18/3

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Dunno, but it uses a fairly large amount of Chakra. Guess Neji is probably low in the upper echelon (i.e. in the upper tier, but low in said tier)
Also, damn, the Branch family must have been incredibly weak before 😐. They weren't allowed to even learn Kaiten or the other techniques.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
~ Also, mind explaining this page? Karin seems to think that Sasuke and herself might be caught in a genjutsu, despite Danzou's chakra source being singular & where Karin saw Danzou.
Don't forget, Karin's possibly the best sensor in the manga.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/477-18/3

Originally posted by Kento
I don't think it had to do with being weaker, just to do with they weren't the main family so they weren't allowed to learn the moves. Makes me wonder how Neji learned them on his own if he wasn't suppose to know of them.

You misunderstood. I said they must have been weak before because they couldn't learn those techniques.

He's a genius, and his Byakugan is among the best. He just saw them in action and was able to deduce how they worked with his Byakugan.

Originally posted by Kento
But she says a few pages later that it's not a genjutsu because she doesn't sense an imbalance of chakra in either of them. It was just the logical explanation to assume it was genjutsu.

Could be. Or could she have assumed it was genjutsu since there were genjutsu that worked like that?
Meh, you're probably right.

Also, damn you for replying so late 😛, took me a while to remember my point with that scan.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You misunderstood. I said they must have been weak before [b]because they couldn't learn those techniques.

He's a genius, and his Byakugan is among the best. He just saw them in action and was able to deduce how they worked with his Byakugan.[/B]

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Could be. Or could she have assumed it was genjutsu since there were genjutsu that worked like that?
Meh, you're probably right.

Also, damn you for replying so late 😛, took me a while to remember my point with that scan.

Hahaha my plan worked. 😆 But truthfully I just noticed it. I'm not exactly sure why I didn't notice sooner, maybe I was distracted...hmm who knows.

Originally posted by Kento
But aren't you saying they are weak because they couldn't learn those moves? Or maybe I'm just missing something. lol

Actually, that is what I'm saying. I assumed you thought I was saying that the Branch family never learned those techniques because they were weak, when I had said that the Branch family must have been weak because they couldn't learn those techniques.

Apart from incapacitating somehow, what did the Branch family have if they couldn't learn the specialized moves like Kaiten and the Eight Trigrams?

Originally posted by Kento
She still assumed it was genjutsu until Danzo did it again, and she realized that neither her nor Sasuke's chakra was being messed with though. So once she actually 'looked' to see if it was genjutsu when Danzo used Izanagi she knew for certain it wasn't. And what she can sense, the Byakugan can see..... >.>

Hahaha my plan worked. 😆 But truthfully I just noticed it. I'm not exactly sure why I didn't notice sooner, maybe I was distracted...hmm who knows.

Well, yes, but why jump to the idea that Danzou could have used a genjutsu if she didn't think it could be a genjutsu in the first place? If she thinks it could be genjutsu, that would mean that there are genjutsu that can affect you, and still make you see or sense the caster's chakra source to be where the caster physically appears to be.
Also, Izanagi is classified as a genjutsu I think, even though it's more like reality-warping.

Damn, I thought you had conceded 😛.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Actually, that is what I'm saying. I assumed you thought I was saying that the Branch family never learned those techniques because they were weak, when I had said that the Branch family must have been weak because they couldn't learn those techniques.

Apart from incapacitating somehow, what did the Branch family have if they couldn't learn the specialized moves like Kaiten and the Eight Trigrams?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, yes, but why jump to the idea that Danzou could have used a genjutsu if she didn't think it could be a genjutsu in the first place? If she thinks it could be genjutsu, that would mean that there are genjutsu that can affect you, and still make you see or sense the caster's chakra source to be where the caster physically appears to be.
Also, Izanagi is classified as a genjutsu I think, even though it's more like reality-warping.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Damn, I thought you had conceded 😛.

Originally posted by Kento
To a main branch member they probably are weak but by normal standards I doubt they are weak. Though they Hyuuga clan really makes no sense if the Branch family is suppose to 'protect' the main members yet the main branch is the ones that can learn all the special secret moves.

Indeed. I get that the main family needs to be more powerful than the branch, but if the branch family cannot learn even the simplest version of the Eight Trigrams, or the Kaiten, it's pretty sad.

I suppose Hizashi also must have learned the techniques. He should have pretty much been Hiashi's equal.

Originally posted by Kento
Because she didn't check Sasuke or her chakra at first. She was checking for Danzo's chakra. And since it was there, and wasn't coming from another place also she rules out Shadow Clone. That's when she thought it might be genjutsu, and checked herself, and Sasuke. As for genjutsu, well yea the caster is still going to be there, it's not like they disappear. Genjutsu just makes you see something that isn't there for the most part. It would just be, he's attacked, uses genjutsu, moves. Eh, Izanagi isn't really anything like genjutsu so I don't see why it would be under genjutsu. Guess we'll find out in the next databook, since I don't think ones came out with Izanagi in it.

Ehh, fine, I'll concede this, it's getting confusing >__>.

Madara calls it a genjutsu though. It doesn't seem to be a ninjutsu IMO, definitely not a Taijutsu.

Originally posted by Kento
😛 I gave up on the Amaterasu/Kaiten thing. Though I still think it's very possible..... And Sasuke's plot induced chakra levels. 😆

Yes, because not even the awesome Kaiten can stop the emoterasu 😛.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Indeed. I get that the main family needs to be more powerful than the branch, but if the branch family cannot learn even the simplest version of the Eight Trigrams, or the Kaiten, it's pretty sad.

I suppose Hizashi also must have learned the techniques. He should have pretty much been Hiashi's equal.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ehh, fine, I'll concede this, it's getting confusing >__>.

Madara calls it a genjutsu though. It doesn't seem to be a ninjutsu IMO, definitely not a Taijutsu.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, because not even the awesome Kaiten can stop the emoterasu 😛.

Originally posted by Kento
Well I guess you don't need to learn 64 Palms to learn Gentle Fist style. So they probalby learn just the basic taijutsu. Though it shouldn't really be hard to learn if you see it being taught. Though I guess most branch members really don't care unlike Neji.

Who knows. Neji's a genius after all, and his Byakugan is said to be extremely good, and he had to deduce how the techniques worked. So I don't think it's easy to learn the techniques just by watching them. I mean, sure, if he had a Byakugan/Sharingan hybrid, then it'd be easy 😛.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, but last time I checked an illusion can't warp-reality even if it's just yourself in reality. It's more of a ninjutsu than a genjutsu imo. Sure Itachi can control the reality of Tsukiyomi, but it's still all in the person's head, and even that seems to be some low level telepathy.

True. I suppose it's a ninjutsu/genjutsu hybrid of sorts, but more towards the genjutsu spectrum.
Besides, it does turn the damage into an illusion.

Originally posted by Kento
😠 That's what you think.

Love for team-mates >>> Hyuga style defense 😛.

Even without 64 trigrams, I think gentle fist is still fine for busting organs, and 360 vision also makes them better off for dodging attacks than most even sans rotation, so it'd still be a very dangerous style.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, but last time I checked an illusion can't warp-reality even if it's just yourself in reality. It's more of a ninjutsu than a genjutsu imo. Sure Itachi can control the reality of Tsukiyomi, but it's still all in the person's head, and even that seems to be some low level telepathy.