KMC Olympics: Archery

That Link could see the Wind God had nothing to do with his archery. Perception contribute in archery skills, but it does not define. It is an external factor.

Also, the full dialogue is "That's some arm you've got there, and what an eye!..." But the first part is in a textbox just before that one.

The distance between Sylvanas and the beast can easily be compared to the distance between Link and that pole, since Sylvanas was nothing but an barely distinguishable form in the distance, much like that person by the pole.

Shinon is also very good though. The real debate will be Shinon, Kratos, and Ryu.

just a question, as i never tried this
does something happen if you accidently hit the kid?

yea i got that part..i didnt think itd be possible in a zelda game for a kid to get impaled by an arrow, but one could always hope 😛

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's incredibly impressive to shoot something that most people lack the senses to even see 😛 The wind god hangs out just below the clouds inside a giant cyclone. I think it's a great shot.

Also, the full dialogue is "That's some arm you've got there, and what an eye!..." But the first part is in a textbox just before that one.

Sure, but that shot is still more perception and strength than actual archery skill. It shows Link can aim, shoot a powerful arrow and that he see well.

From that feat we know he is without a doubt stronger than Sylvanas. He not unlikely see better, although I suspect Sylvanas could see him as well and he can aim.

None really put him above her in skills though, but his lack of a feat in compare to her tentacle hit puts him below her. Her aim on record is more true than his, and she can draw and fire faster. The fact that she hit so precise when firing so fast, is another reason to why I find her above Link.

Sure, but that shot is still more perception and strength than actual archery skill. It shows Link can aim, shoot a powerful arrow and that he see well.

A normal human could for example have his strength amped to Link's levels, and his sight amped to even higher, and still never make the shot, because that's an inhuman level of hand-eye coordination and skill.

From that feat we know he is without a doubt stronger than Sylvanas. He not unlikely see better, although I suspect Sylvanas could see him as well and he can aim.

None really put him above her in skills though, but his lack of a feat in compare to her tentacle hit puts him below her. Her aim on record is more true than his, and she can draw and fire faster. The fact that she hit so precise when firing so fast, is another reason to why I find her above Link.

I could argue that shoosting the windgod is easily worth the tentacle feat. I could also argue that their aims on record are both just as true. I don't think Link's ever missed, and I don't think Sylvanas has ever missed, thus neither has the better record.

As for rate of fire, we don't know how fast Link can knock and pull arrows from his bow. In gameplay he can fire as fast as you can press the button. (Spamming C fast enough can run you out of arrows in seconds.) But we don't really have anything more than that for rate of fire. So we don't know. We do know that his aim is insanely good, though.

I have a problem. What happens if they both score perfectly in archery? 😐

They shoot eachother until one dies.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And also that he can match all of those thing with incredible hand eye coordination and spatial awareness. I'm not sure why that makes him less skilled, because this seems to be the dfefinition of skilled with a bow.

A normal human could for example have his strength amped to Link's levels, and his sight amped to even higher, and still never make the shot, because that's an inhuman level of hand-eye coordination and skill.

I have to ask, how strong is Sylvanas? She might be atleast borderline super-human to make a shot at that distance.

I could argue that shoosting the windgod is easily worth the tentacle feat. I could also argue that their aims on record are both just as true. I don't think Link's ever missed, and I don't think Sylvanas has ever missed, thus neither has the better record.

As for rate of fire, we don't know how fast Link can knock and pull arrows from his bow. In gameplay he can fire as fast as you can press the button. (Spamming C fast enough can run you out of arrows in seconds.) But we don't really have anything more than that for rate of fire. So we don't know. We do know that his aim is insanely good, though.

I have a problem. What happens if they both score perfectly in archery? 😐

The problem is that most of this is still based a lot on Link's strength. Many archers could make the shot Link did on the Wind God, if they had his eye and strength. It is this fact that make me put Sylvanas above Link.

The feats by Link is all about good aim, good perception and strong shots, and the most prominent feats of his are at targets not moving. You say that Link's never missed and because Sylvanas never has, neither has the better record. I disagree. Link has provided no indication that he could repeat the shots by Sylvanas. Sure, Sylvanas could not repeat his shot against the Wind God either, but that is because she is not strong enough, not because she is not skilled enough.

You are assuming Link capable of things because we have no limit on his skills. That is a fallacy, using the lack of a limit to claim rivalry in skills compared to another with different feats.

I am too tired to think straight right now, but tomorrow I will explain to you why Sylvanas feat is a better bow mastery feat than Link's, if this post has not already done that.

Sylvanas physical strength, to answer your question, is unknown. We know her arrow pierced Arthas shoulder and plate armor like it was a piece of paper. She has also shot straight into the head of a gargoyle, which is of solid stone.

Kai can do all of Link's arrow feats and she's mentally ill.

Many archers could make the shot Link did on the Wind God, if they had his eye and strength.

Edit: In the end it's a moot disagreement, because he's clearly capable of making amazing shots, regardless of the word used to describe that capability.

Also, Sin. Mental Illness does not affect one's skill or ability, nor does it make them less intelligent.

There is another factor that is being ignored, and that is stamina.

I don't know if any of you have ever shot a bow before, but it takes considerable stamina to fire in rapid succession. I can feel the burn after only 5 or six rapid shots with a compound bow. So, strength/endurance is going to make a bit of difference in archery.
That's my opinion, at least.

I've shot a bow many times, used to have a four foot composite. Sort of a hobby. Yeah, your arms feel like noodles after a day on the range.

Every character here's shown the ability to be awesome though. Sylvanas has shown she can shoot in rapid succession, so it's logical that yes, she would have the stamina to do so 😛

Originally posted by LLLLLink
There is another factor that is being ignored, and that is stamina.

I don't know if any of you have ever shot a bow before, but it takes considerable stamina to fire in rapid succession. I can feel the burn after only 5 or six rapid shots with a compound bow. So, strength/endurance is going to make a bit of difference in archery.
That's my opinion, at least.

Mind the sexual innuendo, but this lot are not men enough to tire Sylvanas.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Here's my fundamental disagreement. The skill it would take to make such an insane shot even with his eye and strength is very high. The hulk with legolas' eyes would never make that shot, for example. You need to have incredible hand eye co-ordination and archery skill to make a shot at any significant range, no matter how strong you are. The fact that the windgod was hanging out inside a giant cyclone just beneath the clouds, and would be totally imperceptible to human eyes only makes the feat that much better.

Edit: In the end it's a moot disagreement, because he's clearly capable of making amazing shots, regardless of the word used to describe that capability.

Also, Sin. Mental Illness does not affect one's skill or ability, nor does it make them less intelligent.

She did say archers, and Hulk is no archer. Archery is all about technique. Your physical attributes contribute, but I need to agree with Q'Anilia: Give a master archer Link's physical attributes and his feats can be repeated. He saw the wing guy, aimed and hit him. That is good aim and strength and by the look of it, something at least Shinon could repeat if he had that strength and eye-sight.

By this reasoning give a master archer, whatever that qualifies as, strength and sight, and he can replicate Sylvanas' feat as well. 😬 Shinon shooting a rope at a reasonable distance is impressive, but the sheer precision it takes to aim something at so small a target at so great a distance as Link did is beyond even him, imho.

Being strong, and seeing well, don't make his showings of skill less impressive. 😐 You could give the best living human archer all the strength and eyesight of.. I dunno.. Let's say Sylvanas and Link combined, but working with only his own skill, he'd never be able to replicate either of their feats.

She did say archers, and Hulk is no archer. Archery is all about technique.

Which implies archery takes skill! Ahah! Trapped! Or something. But yeah, Link is a skilled archer, strength addss to it but without skill strength is useless. I stand by this:

"In the end it's a moot disagreement, because he's clearly capable of making amazing shots, regardless of the word used to describe that capability."

The significant point that differ between Sylvanas and Link, and the reason I define Sylvanas a better archer is the following-

When you fire an arrow, there is more to its path than simple aim and perception. You calculate, you premeditate, you breathe and you fire. While there is a lot of skill in Link's shots, there is little calculation. He took good aim, but the two most important hits that you lift out with him, are both against targets that does not move.

The thing here, is not that Link is not necessarily a less talented archer than Sylvanas, but that he has not shown being as talented. I do not argue the possibility that Link could repeat the shots Sylvanas has pulled of, but simply because he might be able to, does not make it so.
I am sure there is more to Link's archery than meets the eye, but before it does meet the eye, it can not be claimed that he is able to pull of a shot that is totally different from his previous feats.

Sylvanas hit against the tentacles require a vast degree higher premeditation and calculations, for the plain reason that they are as slim as the pole Link hit and at the same time virtually as far away and MOVING. Despite this difference, Sylvanas fired four arrows at virtually the same time and she hit them at different points with each arrow.

Something that, until further facts on Link's archery is provided, shows how Sylvanas mind is vastly more comprehensive to archery than Link's.

When you fire an arrow, there is more to its path than simple aim and perception. You calculate, you premeditate, you breathe and you fire. While there is a lot of skill in Link's shots, there is little calculation. He took good aim, but the two most important hits that you lift out with him, are both against targets that does not move.

Has Sylvanas ever shot from horseback?

Also, a moving target is a near moot point at the speed one of Sylvanas' arrows would fly. 😛

Still, Link can and has shot many moving targets, just generally not at the distance he displays in TP and WW. The thing is though, both of these characters arrows fly fast enough that with how accurately we know they can shoot, the distance doesn't really matter that much until a moving target can actually move between the time the arrow is fired and it arrives.

Moving targets Link has shot:
-Ganon, all the damn time, even immediately after a teleport.
-Majora, leaves after images, extremely acrobatic
-Volvagia, flying
-Ghoma, in the eye
-ect.

Just about the only things he can't shoot are Dark Link, who hax, and Zelda, for obvious reasons.

Regardless, a target downrange isn't moving. 😛

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]Mind the sexual innuendo, but this lot are not men enough to tire Sylvanas. [/B]

Now hold on a moment. Young Link was canonically able to fight at full power for 3 full days without rest (archery, swordsmanship, back-breaking labor, etc.).
We are talking about a child here (who, by the way, is just as good a shot as his adult form). So, perhaps it is the other way around.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Now hold on a moment. Young Link was canonically able to fight at full power for 3 full days without rest (archery, swordsmanship, back-breaking labor, etc.).
We are talking about a child here (who, by the way, is just as good a shot as his adult form). So, perhaps it is the other way around.

Game mechanics FTL

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Now hold on a moment. Young Link was canonically able to fight at full power for 3 full days without rest (archery, swordsmanship, back-breaking labor, etc.).
We are talking about a child here (who, by the way, is just as good a shot as his adult form). So, perhaps it is the other way around.

Can he keep it up forever? I mean the things he did for three full days, can he keep them up for three full centuries? Eons?

You do not know what a Warcraft Undead is actually capable of, do you?

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]Can he keep it up forever? I mean the things he did for three full days, can he keep them up for three full centuries? Eons?
? [/B]

No, because Majora's Mask is the one game that gives you the option to sleep the days away in contrast to working. Also, there are quotes like, "...Even if you don't sleep, that only leaves you a measly 72 hours!" - Tatl
Also, there is the All-night Mask.

I have no idea what you just said

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]I have no idea what you just said [/B]

I guess this means that I am a nerd...