Team McClane versus Team Vincent...

Team McClane:

1. John McClane (Die Hard)
2. Martin Riggs (Lethal Weapon)
3. Bryan Mills (Taken)

versus

Team Vincent:

1. Vincent (Collateral)
2. Leon (The Professional)
3. Ghost Dog (Ghost Dog)

4 scenarios:

Scenario 1: In Nakatomi plaza, at night. All combatants are armed with a Beretta 92f. This is a 3 on 3 battle, no one else involved. No hostages.

Scenario 2: Also at night, Team Vincent has taken hostages. Kim Mills, Lucy McClane and Lorna Cole are kidnapped in order to lure Team McClane out. The hostages are being held on the top floor of Nakatomi plaza and will be killed in two hours. Team McClane must infiltrate the plaza and rescue them. In this scenario, the following conditions apply:
-McClane has never set foot inside Nakatomi plaza.

-Team Mac are all wearing radio headsets and have the support
of Lucius Fox (None of his gadgets, just his advice, because he
knows the layout of Nakatomi).

-All combatants are wearing bulletproof vests.

-All combatants have night vision gear.

-Each combatant is armed with: A silenced Beretta, a silenced
MP5 machine gun, and a combat knife.

Scenario 3: No hostages here. The fight takes place in the castle the Fraternity resides in (Wanted), in broad daylight, and all combatants have access to any and all weaponry they were shown using in their movies.

Scenario 4: No guns. The fight takes place in an empty bar at happy hour. The combatants are free to sue any and everything around them as weapons.

Which team wins the day? Bear in mind McClane and Mills are in "Where's my daughter" mode, while Riggs is in crazy Riggs mode, like at the end of Lethal Weapon 2.

McClane and Mills'll be most likely be outnumbered 2-to-3 after Riggs "goes crazy" making stupid, sloppy mistakes like at the end of LW2, getting gunned down, leaving it to McClane and Mills to dual-solo the whole thing, leaving the opposition's collective anus in tatters.

I don't get you. Riggs was that much more effective and deadly while in crazy mode.

Riggs getting gunned down at the end of LW2 was the same as Mac rushing in headfirst at the end of DH4. Besides, Riggs took 6-7 .44's through his lungs and lived, dude. Trumps any injury Mac took, tenfold.

Now, a realistic and non "Riggs hate" perspective....Scenario 1, Vincent and Leon had superior gun feats. Ghost Dog'd prolly go rogue and **** things up for Team Vincent. Riggs and Mac, both cops, I see them working together well, and with Mills on their side (sorta), this could go either way.

Two: Team Vincent.

Three: Team McClane stomps. Mills is a beast, Mac is the master of using his environment, and Riggs, well. likely his shoulder will be dislocated, and we all know what happenes then.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I don't get you. Riggs was that much more effective and deadly while in crazy mode.

Maybe to a point.
Riggs's physical stamina seemed to improve short term with his rage, which is fair enough but it burns out, and then he gets full of lead, neccessitating his partner's intervention to save his ass/the day, like normally happens when he "goes crazy".

This would just slow team McClane down.

Riggs getting gunned down at the end of LW2 was the same as Mac rushing in headfirst at the end of DH4. Besides, Riggs took 6-7 .44's through his lungs and lived, dude. Trumps any injury Mac took, tenfold.

Now, a realistic and non "Riggs hate" perspective....Scenario 1, Vincent and Leon had superior gun feats. Ghost Dog'd prolly go rogue and **** things up for Team Vincent. Riggs and Mac, both cops, I see them working together well, and with Mills on their side (sorta), this could go either way.

No it wasn't. An initially admirable yet ultimately poor comparison, sir....!!

McClane shot himself to save his daughter in DH4..
Riggs was ambushed through and through, and recieved an ass full of lead.
(Murtaugh's penis had to make way for that lead, of course. 🙂 )

His survival in that instance was down purely to the rejuvinating fluids recieved in his bott-bott from Murtaugh, PIS, and the greed of studio franchises..

McClane needed no such bum medicine.

Superior feats lolz
Alright. Mr. McClane, Mr.Vincent, Mr.Leon.... please raise your hand if you were alive at the end of your first movie...

Oh.....

I see that only Mr.McClane is the only one with his hand up.... whys that...?

Oh. He raised his hand four-point-oh times...?
Wow. That must have been the same shit happening to the same guy twi-nope FOUR times (Whereupon he killed everyone and won yet again).

President McClane FTW

As for the rest of it....kinda would doubt that.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
To a point.
Riggs's physical stamina seemed to improve short term with his rage, which is fair enough but it burns out, and then he gets full of lead, neccessitating his partner's intervention to save his ass/the day.

This would just slow team McClane down.

No it wasn't. An initially admirable yet ultimately poor comparison, sir....!!

McClane shot himself to save his daughter in DH4..
Riggs was ambushed through and through, and recieved an ass full of lead.
(Murtaugh's penis had to make way for that lead, of course. 🙂 )

His survival in that instance was down purely to the rejuvinating fluids recieved in his bott-bott from Murtaugh, PIS, and the greed of studio franchises..

McClane needed no such bum medicine.

Superior feats lolz
Alright. Mr. McClane, Mr.Vincent, Mr.Leon.... please raise your hand if you were alive at the end of your first movie...

Oh.....

I see that only Mr.McClane is the only one with his hand up.... whys that...?

Oh. He raised his hand four-point-oh times...?
Wow. That must have been the same shit happening to the same guy twi-nope FOUR times (Whereupon he killed everyone and won yet again).

President McClane FTW

Riggs against the two south Africans in LW2, when he was dumped in the water. He broke one of their necks with his hands.

Riggs against the baddies in LW1, he rushed in the room, unarmed, broke a few necks with his HANDS, then pwned with a gun.

McClane needs stairs to break necks. Doooooooooh.....Ergo, Riggs is a better H2H combatant.

Let's not get started on Mac rolling solo. He had support throughout his movies, most notably a computer geek who saved his life, just as Murtaugh saved Riggs. No Farrell, Mac go die die. 😉

And let's see....The club scene where Vincent took on the bodyguards, the robbery scene where dude had a gun in Vincent's face, McClane woulda been killed. Riggs? He woulda done he same to the robber as he did the guy in the pool in LW2.

Not to mention Leon, who is the biggest badass here. Throw in Ghost Dog, and......yeah....

Vincent, yeah, he underestimated Willie Beamen and got pwned. Leon? Dude, you think Mac coulda escaped the apartment as he did? Get real, Vincent and Leon would eat McClane's lunch and steal his lunch money.

Let's not make this another McClane versus Riggs thread, that has been done to death. After all, they are on the same team here. And BTW, Mills could take on Mac and Riggs, back to back, and walk away. Battered, bruised, but he would win. Funny how you are ignoring Mills here and focusing on the McClane.

Riggs>Mac
Mills>Mac
Mills>Riggs
Mills rapes Mac....

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Riggs against the two south Africans in LW2, when he was dumped in the water. He broke one of their necks with his hands.

Riggs against the baddies in LW1, he rushed in the room, unarmed, broke a few necks with his HANDS, then pwned with a gun.

McClane needs stairs to break necks. Doooooooooh.....Ergo, Riggs is a better H2H combatant.

Let's not get started on Mac rolling solo. He had support throughout his movies, most notably a computer geek who saved his life, just as Murtaugh saved Riggs. No Farrell, Mac go die die. 😉

And let's see....The club scene where Vincent took on the bodyguards, the robbery scene where dude had a gun in Vincent's face, McClane woulda been killed. Riggs? He woulda done he same to the robber as he did the guy in the pool in LW2.

Not to mention Leon, who is the biggest badass here. Throw in Ghost Dog, and......yeah....

Vincent, yeah, he underestimated Willie Beamen and got pwned. Leon? Dude, you think Mac coulda escaped the apartment as he did? Get real, Vincent and Leon would eat McClane's lunch and steal his lunch money.

Let's not make this another McClane versus Riggs thread, that has been done to death. After all, they are on the same team here. And BTW, Mills could take on Mac and Riggs, back to back, and walk away. Battered, bruised, but he would win. Funny how you are ignoring Mills here and focusing on the McClane.

Riggs>Mac
Mills>Mac
Mills>Riggs
Mills rapes Mac....

Yeaaaaaaaaaaah The key to the problem in the 1st phrase was the words "Dumped in the water": Not the mark of success.

So what....? It was basic surprise attack stuff...Do you mean to suggest that McClane is incapable of ambush...?
'Cause last I checked, even when McClane ambushes people even with a zippo, 27 fort bragg trained marines are killed.
WAY more impressive than Riggs' frenzy achievement feats.

Mills is gold, mate. No need to worry about Mills.

I noticed how you have him anally violating McClane, yet he merely '>'s Riggs.
Shows your bias.
(We all know that Riggs Fighting man's ego's rectum would be left sullied, bloodied and sore after that encounter....so you unfounded claims that he could beat McClane yet with the air that he somehow couldnt beat Riggs are laughable yet commendable. 😛 )

Mills would buttf**k Riggs whilst ramming conductive metal into Riggs thighs and connecting it to the mains, leaving him too cook until the power company turned off the power for non-payment of bills.. And thats WAY more punishment than Endo administered to Riggs in LW1.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yeaaaaaaaaaaah The key to the problem in the 1st phrase was the words "Dumped in the water": Not the mark of success.

So what....? It was basic surprise attack stuff...Do you mean to suggest that McClane is incapable of ambush...?
'Cause last I checked, even when McClane ambushes people even with a zippo, 27 fort bragg trained marines are killed.
WAY more impressive than Riggs' frenzy achievement feats.

Mills is gold, mate. No need to worry about Mills.

I noticed how you have him anally violating McClane, yet he merely '>'s Riggs.
Shows your bias.
(We all know that Riggs Fighting man's ego's rectum would be left sullied, bloodied and sore after that encounter....so you unfounded claims that he could beat McClane yet with the air that he somehow couldnt beat Riggs are laughable yet commendable. 😛 )

Mills would buttf**k Riggs whilst ramming conductive metal into Riggs thighs and connecting it to the mains, leaving him too cook until the power company turned off the power for non-payment of bills.. And thats WAY more punishment than Endo administered to Riggs in LW1.

In the listed scenarios, Mills training would be uber valuable. Riggs, his special forces training almost as valuable. McClane, with his tenacity and luck of the Irish, this is a mad skilled team. Working TOGETHER.

But, I can't stop wondering about Vincent in that nightclub, about Leon in the apartment, about Ghost Dog with his mad stealth.

Truth be told, this could go either way, except for scenario three, where Team Mac pwns in epic proportions. The curb stomps of all curbstomps.

No I dont think you do, judging for your stated assertions..

The "Luck of the irish" refers to bad luck....doesnt it...very u-McClane like.
No matter the carebears sentiment like meaning of "TOGETHER" (as you put it), Mills and McClane working "together" with Riggs would be like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson working with Richard Simmons.

Truth be told...? lol Then why make the thread if you so arrogantly assert that team McClane cant win...?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No I dont think you do, judging for your stated assertions..

The "Luck of the irish" refers to bad luck....doesnt it...very u-McClane like.
No matter the carebears sentiment like meaning of "TOGETHER" (as you put it), Mills and McClane working "together" with Riggs would be like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson working with Richard Simmons.

Truth be told...? lol Then why make the thread if you so arrogantly assert that team McClane cant win...?

I don't what? Know where you stand in the Riggs versus Mac debate? I know better than anyone where you stand there.

Good luck, the McClane luck, better?

There you go again. Just can't help it, can ya? 😉 It's like you know deep down that Riggs would pwn Mac, 24/7, all day every day, and it eats you up. No respect whatsoever for Riggs, none. Are you seriously saying that having Riggs on their side would HURT them?

One last time.....This is NOT a Riggs versus Mac thread. Stop with the McClane knob jobbing and accept that together, they are a formidable team. Only a fool would think differently.

I'll review the others latter, but in scenario 2. Leon kills the other members of his team and hands the women over to team McClane. He has rules against killing women and children.

No morals here.

Originally posted by Nightstick
I'll review the others latter, but in scenario 2. Leon kills the other members of his team and hands the women over to team McClane. He has rules against killing women and children.

Not really. He knows they are only using the hostages to lure them out. They won't need to kill the women after they achieve their objective, which is to eliminate the other team.

Originally posted by Placidity
Not really. He knows they are only using the hostages to lure them out. They won't need to kill the women after they achieve their objective, which is to eliminate the other team.

Considering. Leon's moral stance on the issue. I find it hard to believe he'd use the women as bait.

Alas though, per the thread starter he is out of character any way.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No morals here.

LoL, oh you. Morals count. morals don't count, wait, morals count. Like a lightswitch.

Anyhow, McClane lands a burning Ford Crown Victoria on the opposing team's heads. This is how should end, being a McClace scenario.

Team 2 doesn't compare. Mills outclasses all the others in skill. McClane is like a roach, he simply takes a stomping and keeps on going.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, oh you. Morals count. morals don't count, wait, morals count. Like a lightswitch.

Anyhow, McClane lands a burning Ford Crown Victoria on the opposing team's heads. This is how should end, being a McClace scenario.

Team 2 doesn't compare. Mills outclasses all the others in skill. McClane is like a roach, he simply takes a stomping and keeps on going.

Until Impediment passes a rule stating one way or the other, the thread starter specifies morals or not. I specified not.

Mills outclasses Leon in gunplay? I think not.

How's McClane gonna get a Crown Vic inside Nakatomi? You see, you gotta stop being blinded by the Mcpubic hairs and think logically.

I'm gonna break this down a little sumthin for ya....A kill is a kill, doesn't matter how, end result is a feat.

Let's say we are talking about two movie characters, Jim and Dave, for example. OK, Jim and Dave each have four movies, they are the main characters, always saving the day. Obviously they do so with gun, with h2h, with whatever.

Now......Let's say that Jim and Dave fight a varying degree of opponents in each film. The opponents range, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1-5 (low level thugs), 5-7 (Guys above average, like Vorsdted, Karl, John Amos), 8-9 (The Colonel, Mai), and 10 (Jet Li, LW4)....

OK, Jim fights guys all the way up to level 8-9, while Dave fights the same, in addition to a level 10, winning. Who is the better fighter? Seems to me that whoever constantly fights harder opponents, and defeats a level 10, while their peer does not, is the better fighter. (Dave FTW.)

Ya feel me? Pickin up what I'm puttin down?

NOW.... Since Riggs fought the best of all the baddies, Jet Li, and WON, logic dictates he is the better fighter.

Wow...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'm gonna break this down a little sumthin for ya....A kill is a kill, doesn't matter how, end result is a feat.

Let's say we are talking about two movie characters, Jim and Dave, for example. OK, Jim and Dave each have four movies, they are the main characters, always saving the day. Obviously they do so with gun, with h2h, with whatever.

Now......Let's say that Jim and Dave fight a varying degree of opponents in each film. The opponents range, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1-5 (low level thugs), 5-7 (Guys above average, like Vorsdted, Karl, John Amos), 8-9 (The Colonel, Mai), and 10 (Jet Li, LW4)....

OK, Jim fights guys all the way up to level 8-9, while Dave fights the same, in addition to a level 10, winning. Who is the better fighter? Seems to me that whoever constantly fights harder opponents, and defeats a level 10, while their peer does not, is the better fighter. (Dave FTW.)

Ya feel me? Pickin up what I'm puttin down?

NOW.... Since Riggs fought the best of all the baddies, Jet Li, and WON, logic dictates he is the better fighter.

Wow...

Right haermm Let me rephrase...

Take all of the baddies from the DH and LW movies. Who is the best H2H combatant? The toughest opponent, most deadly?

The answer is quite obvious..... *cough cough JET LI cough cough*

Riggs beat him. Riggs beat someone far more skilled and deadly than McClane ever did. Murtaugh was there, sure, but he was in Riggs' way. The fight was pretty much Riggs versus Li. And yes, Riggs beat him with an AK47. If McClane blowing up a jumbo jet with a zippo counts as a screen feat, so does Riggs killing Li with an AK.

Beating a more difficult opponent=Bigger screen feat, = superior combatant.

Damage soak....Family full of .44's to the lungs. RIGGS.

Fighting skill.....Trained martial artist who routinely takes on 5-6 guys at a time, breaks necks with his bare hands.....RIGGS.

Life saved by another......McClane: Saved by Al, saved by Farrell. Riggs? Saved once by Murtaugh in LW2. And it barely counts, because the old South African man had run out of bullets. Sooooo McClane has his life saved by others more often than Riggs.

Not to mention that McClane had far more support than Riggs did. Al, Marv, the news chopper, Zeus, Farrell, the Wizard.

Speed.....Riggs, let's not be stupid.

Any argument for McClane here is nothing more than wanting McClane to win. Want in one hand, shit in the other, see which gets full first.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I don't what? Know where you stand in the Riggs versus Mac debate? I know better than anyone where you stand there.

Good luck, the McClane luck, better?

There you go again. Just can't help it, can ya? 😉 It's like you know deep down that Riggs would pwn Mac, 24/7, all day every day, and it eats you up. No respect whatsoever for Riggs, none. Are you seriously saying that having Riggs on their side would HURT them?

One last time.....This is NOT a Riggs versus Mac thread. Stop with the McClane knob jobbing and accept that together, they are a formidable team. Only a fool would think differently.

Nope only a fool would watch film after film of Lethal Weapon where Riggs loses it and gets sloppy at detriment to the team/quest/situation, and not see how that could work against Team McClane..

Stop projecting pal. You are a deeeeeeeeply butthurt man, and accusing me of having your disposition is no successful deflection. 🙂
Quit now before you are McRiggsPotterSideswiped yet again.

Nobjobbing....? lol Take that Gibson sausage outta your mouth when trying to sound ignorant. (I assume that was something you were trying to do, rather than doing it all natural like. 😛 )

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right haermm Let me rephrase...

Take all of the baddies from the DH and LW movies. Who is the best H2H combatant? The toughest opponent, most deadly?

The answer is quite obvious..... *cough cough JET LI cough cough*

Riggs beat him. Riggs beat someone far more skilled and deadly than McClane ever did. Murtaugh was there, sure, but he was in Riggs' way. The fight was pretty much Riggs versus Li. And yes, Riggs beat him with an AK47. If McClane blowing up a jumbo jet with a zippo counts as a screen feat, so does Riggs killing Li with an AK.

Beating a more difficult opponent=Bigger screen feat, = superior combatant.

Damage soak....Family full of .44's to the lungs. RIGGS.

Fighting skill.....Trained martial artist who routinely takes on 5-6 guys at a time, breaks necks with his bare hands.....RIGGS.

Life saved by another......McClane: Saved by Al, saved by Farrell. Riggs? Saved once by Murtaugh in LW2. And it barely counts, because the old South African man had run out of bullets. Sooooo McClane has his life saved by others more often than Riggs.

Not to mention that McClane had far more support than Riggs did. Al, Marv, the news chopper, Zeus, Farrell, the Wizard.

Speed.....Riggs, let's not be stupid.

Any argument for McClane here is nothing more than wanting McClane to win. Want in one hand, shit in the other, see which gets full first.

Wrong again. Jet Li beat Riggs. Murtaugh killed him.
Riggs has has a specially appointed ass saver named Murtaugh, because he cant make it alone.
He is a buddy flick character.

McClane is helped occasionally by different humans around at the time and largely makes it alone.

If Riggs had such fighting skill as you maintain, hed not get captured in like ever movie.

And Riggs speed was shit. There are tonnes of guys faster than him. Even a rookie boxer using slow basic shots dominated Riggs. So can we stop the "Riggsy wiggsy has magic spells I dream of him having" shit....?