Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He still writes better Wolverine than Whedon. Although he screwed up with the "healing factor = pain reduction" part.They had a conversation in 1st ish IIRC. That's all.
yea wasent the line like what you gunna fight me next or something. it was like really thats all you have wolverine say to kitty who he has not seen in months lol.
Originally posted by Battlehammeryea wasent the line like what you gunna fight me next or something. it was like really thats all you have wolverine say to kitty who he has not seen in months lol.
There were a few lines, I'd rather have you watching my back...or something a long those lines.
Then they spoke in Torn but that wasn't really Wolverine.
I do remember Whedon saying that he didn't want Wolverine though. That's probably why he kept him in the background for the most part.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I wouldn't say Emma grieved more then Wolverine. I'd say it was more down to her finally cracking. She was on the verge of breaking ever since the Bus attack. This was just the tipping point. Wolverine had his own way of grieving, Kitty died as an X-Men and as a grown up, she was no longer this little girl that he needed to protect, but at the end of the day he still thought of her as that. That is why he felt so guilty because it ended up being her at the end of the day.
it was handle bad, why are you even trying to defend it? do I really need to bring up all the major events these two have had in eachothers lifes which make him barely showing to care, to be absurdly out of character? for exampe he trained her to be the warrior she is, she the reason he transformed back from death ect.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It really wouldn't make sense for Wolverine to go berzerker at the end of the story IMHO. The thing with Armor just seemed like nice nod to every other sidekick he has ever had.
He did not even cry, or get angry or anything. he did nothing it was terrible characterization. He should have flipped out (going berserker is not him flipping out by the way), yelled told them to turn around something. him just sitting there barely concerned was just awful awful writing.
armor part was stupid, he pretty much put armor in there to have wolverine react with someone becuase he had no idea how to have him react to all ready defined character, when in reality he showed have either got rid of wolverine or got rid of armor and had wolverine simply interact with kitty.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There were a few lines, I'd rather have you watching my back...or something a long those lines.Then they spoke in Torn but that wasn't really Wolverine.
I do remember Whedon saying that he didn't want Wolverine though. That's probably why he kept him in the background for the most part.
He stated he had no idea how write wolverine or how to make him interact with the other characters.
which is fine, leave him out, but marvel of course made him write him. which is fine I don't mind that at all. characters can some times be written badly even though majority of the characters and story is written well. Thats happens, but to have a character die and to pretty much ignore the relationship and mishandle to character closest to them simply because of ignorance of the character annoys me. He should have done some home work and at least attempted to make a believeable reaction to her death, not some garbage about beer, which was the only thing he ever had wolverine say. That is why I think he overrated becuase he misshandle badly such a dramatic event and relationship the has been going on for 30 years. I mean imagin if that was actually her real death and she was never coming back, thats how there realationship ends? that just god awful.
On a side note I am pumped she is back. She is very interesting character, her powers are really cool, plus her death kinda sucked and how it was treated. I am looking forward to seeing her back in action and it would be really cool to see her get back to her ninja bad ass ways.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
He barly even griefed he did not even care it seemed and other x-men with literrally nothing closes to the realationship he had with her were shown to grief far far more.it was handle bad, why are you even trying to defend it? do I really need to bring up all the major events these two have had in eachothers lifes which make him barely showing to care, to be absurdly out of character?
It would have made far more senses then him showing zero emotion and no caring.
He did not even cry, or get angry or anything. he did nothing it was terrible characterization. He should have flipped out (going berserker is not him flipping out by the way), yelled told them to turn around something. him just sitting there barely concerned was just awful awful writing.
armor part was stupid, he pretty much put armor in there to have wolverine react with someone becuase he had no idea how to have him react to all ready defined character, when in reality he showed have either got rid of wolverine or got rid of armor and had wolverine simply interact with kitty.
I just disagree, no need to get so worked up. IMO I didn't think it was that OOC. I mean it's a bit of an exaggeration to say drinking oneselves sorrows away is doing nothing don't you think? He looked like a complete mess.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea I agree, though I though the wheldon over all writing was a lot better.
I think Whedon is overrated. His writing didn't appeal to me like it did to others. I got tired of his Astonishing, Ellis is a nice change. I actually liked Ghost Box arc, it's the new one I have a problem with. Resurrecting mutants? Again? Bio-sentinels? WTF? Again??
Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea wasent the line like what you gunna fight me next or something. it was like really thats all you have wolverine say to kitty who he has not seen in months lol.
Yup... unbelievable.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I just disagree, no need to get so worked up. IMO I didn't think it was that OOC. I mean it's a bit of an exaggeration to say drinking oneselves sorrows away is doing nothing don't you think? He looked like a complete mess.
getting drunk is not a good way of showing there characterizations. All wheldon did through out the arks was bring up beer every time he had wolverine say or do anything........he treated him like an alcoholic........or did you miss that? I mean how is that ever closes to good characterization? showing him wrecked which for one makes no senses sinc ehe has a healing factor and two is a cop out which ignores there vast history.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I think Whedon is overrated. His writing didn't appeal to me like it did to others. I got tired of his Astonishing, Ellis is a nice change. I actually liked Ghost Box arc, it's the new one I have a problem with. Resurrecting mutants? Again? Bio-sentinels? WTF? Again??Yup... unbelievable.
yup
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I mean what is there really to disagree with? it a fact he characterizaed there realationship badly and handle his reaction to her death badly. Hell even wheldon would agree to this and has said as much already in his inability to write wolverine. I mean this is also backed by the two times she almost did die and wolverine reactions as well as both eachothers roles in major events in there lifes. I mean almsot every single thing in there consistent history points that wheldon doing a very poor ass job at there relationship. I mean can you even come up with anytime were there relationship was treated so distant?getting drunk is not a good way of showing there characterizations. All wheldon did through out the arks was bring up beer every time he had wolverine say or do anything........he treated him like an alcoholic........or did you miss that? I mean how is that ever closes to good characterization? showing him wrecked which for one makes no senses sinc ehe has a healing factor and two is a cop out which ignores there vast history.
Wolverines showdown with Scott and Beast were done well. His lines to Armor were great too. He was mostly there for comedy relief sure but he had some great lines, especially to Fury and Agent Brand.
Getting drunk was a way of dealing with his guilt it was also a way to show off his relationship with Armor.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Wolverines showdown with Scott and Beast were done well. His lines to Armor were great too. He was mostly there for comedy relief sure but he had some great lines, especially to Fury and Agent Brand.Getting drunk was a way of dealing with his guilt it was also a way to show off his relationship with Armor.
beast was good? really please tell me were he ever once acted like that towards beast? That was garbage, and was out of character.
His lines with armor were funny, but not overly in or out of characters, they were ok.
fury and agent brand again nothing great character wises, actually if anything it was kinda off between him and fury a guy he been friends with before cyclopes was even born.
it was a shitty way that ignored his vast vast realationship with kitty and went against completely the first two tiems he thought she died. honestly how can you sit there and tell me that was ok characterization? if you really think so please go re read the last 20 years of there character relationship, because it would not support the believe him simply getting wrecked is good characterization for what he do if kitty died........ it was a cop out and lazyness at it best. I mean did you not notice that everytime wolverien talked or did anything beer was always mentioned?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
People like it so much because it wanked the shit out of emma and scot in my opinion. also it had some good over all stories. I hated ghost box I still dont even get what happened lol. I not sure I read the newest run is that the one that x-force has been part of?
Plus he brought back Kitty and Colossus.
Maybe it was a bit too convoluted, but it had its moments.
Nope. Necrosha is yet another event that deals with resurrecting mutants. In Astonishing X-Men are still in San Fransisco.