Originally posted by Wild Shadow
it's obvious he has never served in the service or he would have heard the term fraternization, which makes his social argument irrelevant for leadership of a team and he would know it has nothing to do with one another.
Capt I believe put it best when talking about Wolverine and how happy he was he stayed with the team stating "you give those around you strength" (quote not word for word just the gist)
Originally posted by Battlehammerso...I agree wolverine is a very good team member. thats different from leading though.
It all about respect.Capt I believe put it best when talking about Wolverine and how happy he was he stayed with the team stating "you give those around you strength" (quote not word for word just the gist)
Originally posted by Starscream Mjawdrop
1. doesn't matter that prof x wasn't on the mission. all the other xmen knew prof x designated scott leader...so he was given authority. later on, he obviously earned their respect and trust.2. military is not avengers. what works in the military doesn't work in the avengers. poor analogy.
3. i don't think logan has 10x more leadership experience than cage.
sigh.... i just dont know what to say to you some time you shock me with ur ability to remain on this site when other ppl can barely last a week... 😕
Originally posted by Starscream M
1. doesn't matter that prof x wasn't on the mission. all the other xmen knew prof x designated scott leader...so he was given authority. later on, he obviously earned their respect and trust.
Originally posted by Starscream M
2. military is not avengers. what works in the military doesn't work in the avengers. poor analogy.
Originally posted by Starscream M
3. i don't think logan has 10x more leadership experience than cage.
Wolverines run several teams of x-men, x force, alpha flight , numerous special opts groups, cia teamas like team x ect. He been doing so for longer then cage has been alive........
Originally posted by Starscream Meven voluntary combat unit still need to plan and prep and use logistics... you dont just go into battle and start barking orders without rehearsing and not knowing everyone's strength and weaknesses
jeez...against, leadership is different in military vs a voluntary group of heroes.
how much military knowledge for leadership does he possess?
can he read a compass? read a map? studied combat manuevers? is he a student of powers? what can he do?
Originally posted by Starscream M
so...I agree wolverine is a very good team member. thats different from leading though.
another perfect example is when snowbird states "I don't like you wolverine, but I can not deny your abilities to lead and Hudson chioce in you." (again it just the gist)
Originally posted by BattlehammerI think social matters when its a small unit of very different people.
It much closer to leading that being social............which has been your very poor arguement.......
thats why the military analogy is weak...because generals lead thousands of soldiers...so of course they can't socialize.
logan would make a good military leader.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I think social matters when its a small unit of very different people.thats why the military analogy is weak...because generals lead thousands of soldiers...so of course they can't socialize.
logan would make a good military leader.
But thats not what we were talking about, we stated officer's who might only lead 12 men. They were not even allowed for decades to fratinizes with there men. So your whole idea that a good leader is some one who social is simply wrong.
Even look at scot, the less social he gotten over the years and the better leader he become. Your job as leader is not to make everyone happy, it to make the tough chioces.
Originally posted by BattlehammerI never said being social was sufficient to being a good leader...I said it was a necessary part. You still need other attributes that NC lacks.
Then you be very mistaken. Being social does not make one a good leader, Night Crawler for one is one of the most social individuals, but he a very poor leader.
Also, when I say social...I don't mean you have to party or joke around all day. I mean you have to constantly keep in touch and communicate. Logan is often on his own and his teammates often don't even know where he's off to.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I never said being social was sufficient to being a good leader...I said it was a necessary part. You still need other attributes that NC lacks.Also, when I say social...I don't mean you have to party or joke around all day. I mean you have to constantly keep in touch and communicate. Logan is often on his own and his teammates often don't even know where he's off to.
That has really nothing to do with aleading teams either. You can be a terrible leader, but stay in touch.
Being a good leader is to have respect from your peers, have absolute word, tactically sound and most important to give strength and inspiration to thoses around you. Reason why capt is so good.
Luke being more social then wolverine and spiderman for why he a better leader is absurd........
Originally posted by Starscream M
I think social matters when its a small unit of very different people.thats why the military analogy is weak...because generals lead thousands of soldiers...so of course they can't socialize.
logan would make a good military leader.
the military has one top general then it breaks down all the way down into groups from as large as battalion, regiment, brigade right down to a small combat unit and even fire teams..
Fire teams are very small about 4 to 6 ppl maybe a medic depending what ur mission is...
and yes.. you can build a bond with ur men around you and perhaps socialize that doesnt mean you cross the line to fraternization and hanging out drinking and partying with "one" of your men.
you can hang out with them together not individually you dont make special exception and you dont disgrace urself in front of your men or ur country by being an idiot and getting drunk.
i have socialized with the commandant of the marine corps at special events that doesnt mean i razz him or he razzes me we can share stories and socialize and if lucky i can get a coin... by u still reserve respect... pls try to look up and learn what it is ur arguing about.
Originally posted by Battlehammerthat's due to the nature of the team. new avengers are filled with vets.
Even if you look at New Avengers when it was sorta lead by Cage (which it not anymore) and you look at X-force lead by Wolverine. Wolverine does a lot more leading and tactics, then Cage ever showed.
Originally posted by Starscream M
that's due to the nature of the team. new avengers are filled with vets.
Cage did not even get the nod for leadership, it was given to barton....... Logan was asked to lead the team he leading. He been asked to lead several teams.....how many teams cgae been asked to lead?
Originally posted by Battlehammerit was not given to barton...barton just took it
.......and x-force isnet? X-force is filled with x-men killers.......Cage did not even get the nod for leadership, it was given to barton....... Logan was asked to lead the team he leading. He been asked to lead several teams.....how many teams cgae been asked to lead?
don't know
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
can you give examples when he did those things?
1. he has total respect and love from those around him - when osborn implanted that thing in his heart, look how many heroes showed up to help him
2. he is tactically sound - he is being asked to now lead the thunderbolts
3. he is inspirational - see #1