Originally posted by 753post retcon beyonder erased death?
The same Death he erased during SSII.
This part of beyonder's history was not retconned, along with many other feats,
like creating an entire infinite Universe.
Originally posted by HarbingerDoesn't really count for much given that Thanos + HOTI effortlessly absorbed him.
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Feat examples?
Tearing Omniverse with a thought.
Team 1 wins. Out of all those nigh omnipotent beings, THOTI was a stand out.
Originally posted by galactusischere
LT was scared shitless of him, while he did go up against Thanos with THOTI.
Because of being scared? And what did help LT going against THOTI?
I still think that THOTI does to PreR Beyonder what he did to LT. It would make no difference to THOTI.
Originally posted by 753THOTU is above beyonder's feats by far.
Even though I've stamped Beyonder vs THOTI as a stalemate,
Beyonder has the greatest feat in Marvel's history.
(creating a reality that in comparison with the infinite Marvelverse,
was like comparing an ocean to a drop of water)
Originally posted by 753by the time it came to it, the LT fearing beyonder had already been retconned anyway
The Beyonder was still in his classic era when the LT feared him.
Originally posted by 753and he raged against thanos because
he 'usurped' TOAA's place
Originally posted by 753there ws no TOAA back in beyonder's days
TOAA = the representational on panel avatars of the artists/writers of Marvel.
TOAA has appeared on panel even before Beyonder came on the scene,
the only difference is that back then we didn't know them as TOAA,
but the concept was always there.
Originally posted by XplosiveTearing Omniverse with a thought.
Originally posted by XplosiveTeam 1 wins. Out of all those nigh omnipotent beings, THOTI was a stand out.
Originally posted by XplosiveBecause of being scared? And what did help LT going against THOTI?
Originally posted by XplosiveI still think that THOTI does to PreR Beyonder what he did to LT.
Originally posted by Mr Master
She's on team 2
I know. He just wanted some feat. But as me, you also know that against THOTI she won't matter.
And about LT going against THOTI and not PreR Beyonder. That doesn't mean anything, since Thor, Hulk and others went also against THOTI.
Akhenaten mastered THOTI, Thanos got it and still made a joke out of Akhenatan like he did anyone else. Akhenatan would make a joke out of LT just as THOTI did. To THOTI it doesn't matter.
Akhenatan>PreR MM
Originally posted by Mr Master
At best for THOTI, it's a stalemate.
In your opinion.
Others would get destroyed by the power of THOTI and PreR Beyonder, then THOTI taking out PreR Beyonder.
Originally posted by XplosiveAnd about LT going against THOTI and not PreR Beyonder. That doesn't mean anything, since Thor, Hulk and others went also against THOTI.
Also ... Thor, Hulk and others went against THOTI because the LT called them to war.
Originally posted by XplosiveAkhenaten mastered THOTI, Thanos got it and still made a joke out of Akhenatan like he did anyone else. Akhenatan would make a joke out of LT just as THOTI did. To THOTI it doesn't matter.
Originally posted by XplosiveAkhenatan>PreR MM
Originally posted by XplosiveIn your opinion.
Originally posted by XplosiveOthers would get destroyed by the power of THOTI and PreR Beyonder
Originally posted by Xplosivethen THOTI taking out PreR Beyonder.
See, it's just opinion vs opinion here.
(only fact here is that Beyonder performed the greatest feat in Marvel's history)
Originally posted by Mr Master
It means what it means.
It doesn't mean much.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Also ... Thor, Hulk and others went against THOTI because the LT called them to war.Imo, the LT would've lost against AK, but not like a joke.
I think he would or should have no trouble at all.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Also ... Thor, Hulk and others went against THOTI because the LT called them to war.
Yes and they shown no fear or at least not close as LT against PreR Beyonder.
I never took it seriously if he was afraid or not, at least not in this case.
Originally posted by Mr Master
See, it's just opinion vs opinion here.
(only fact here is that Beyonder performed the greatest feat in Marvel's history)
Indeed.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Hell no!Even though I've stamped Beyonder vs THOTI as a stalemate,
Beyonder has the greatest feat in Marvel's history.
(creating a reality that in comparison with the infinite Marvelverse,
was like comparing an ocean to a drop of water)That's false.
The Beyonder was still in his classic era when the LT feared him.
Right, and the LT didn't dare go up against the Beyonder
while instead he thought he had a chance against THOTI.TOAA has always existed.
TOAA = the representational on panel avatars of the artists/writers of Marvel.
TOAA has appeared on panel even before Beyonder came on the scene,
the only difference is that back then we didn't know them as TOAA,
but the concept was always there.
I meant that by the time it came to the thotu storyline the beyonder had already been retconned, so the fact is that the LT never cowered in fear of anyone.
I think LT knew he had no chance in hell, they were just acting on their natures, which is to worship TOAA and they'd rather die than go on under thanos.
When did TOAA appear on panel before beyonder? was he stated to be TOAA back then? If TOAA was there back then, wasnt he surely above beyonder too? So isnt it reasonable to see thanos with thotu above beyonder?
Well, if you take the fact that pre-retcon beyonder was a universe greater than marvel omniverse, than yes, this feat would be above absorbing and recreating said omniverse. But if you believe that TOAA was still above him back then (ididnt know he was already on panel before it) and that Thanos had all his powers, that in itself can be considered a feat, just like the beyonder being his own huge ass universe. Absorbing the omniverse is a lot more impressive than erasing death though.
I'm confused about the death thing. If you are referring to SWII, wasn't that retconned as a cosmic theatrical performance? Death simply played her part, I believe, he never truly erased her from reality. Back then he was still believed to be above everyone, but he's been stated to be beneath eternity and others since then.
Originally posted by 753I meant that by the time it came to the thotu storyline the beyonder had already been retconned, so the fact is that the LT never cowered in fear of anyone.
This is why differentiate the Pre from the Post in the OP of the thread.
Originally posted by 753I think LT knew he had no chance in hell, they were just acting on their natures, which is to worship TOAA and they'd rather die than go on under thanos.
But the fact is,
the LT came after Thanos cause he thought he had a chance,
and that's all we can go by,
since there no proof of any kind the LT knew he was doing it in vain.
Originally posted by 7531. When did TOAA appear on panel before beyonder?
2. was he stated to be TOAA back then?
3. If TOAA was there back then, wasnt he surely above beyonder too?
So isnt it reasonable to see thanos with thotu above beyonder?
2. Not TOAA, but the ultimate power over the drawings that appear on panel, that is ... the avatars of the writer and/or artists.
3. While TOAA should've been above the Beyonder, he was not.
Because Shooter (TOAA and more) placed the Beyonder above his avatar,
since Shooter stated that Beyonder discovered hima s well as the drop of water the Marvelverse was.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well yes, by then it was retconned,
but if we're going to use Pre-Retcon/Classic Beyonder in a thread,
then that's still a canon occurance.This is why differentiate the Pre from the Post in the OP of the thread.
Nice unsupported speculation.
But the fact is,
the LT came after Thanos cause he thought he had a chance,
and that's all we can go by,
since there no proof of any kind the LT knew he was doing it in vain.1. TOAA is the representational avatars of the writers/artists,
which have appeared a few times before Beyonder.
(I'm at work, so I don't have access to the scans,
but I'll post at-least two shows I have when I get home.2. Not TOAA, but the ultimate power over the drawings that appear on panel, that is ... the avatars of the writer and/or artists.
3. While TOAA should've been above the Beyonder, he was not.
Because Shooter (TOAA and more) placed the Beyonder above his avatar,
since Shooter stated that Beyonder discovered hima s well as the drop of water the Marvelverse was.
Speculation it may be, but there is not enough reason to assume he thought they could win either, he should know better. LT just found it completely unacceptable to tolerate thanos, that's the only thing on panel.
Was it shown on panel that beyonder met or found the creators avatar? Did the avatar ever show up along with beyonder?
What about the death thing?
Originally posted by XplosiveHom Wanda is just a notch under pre retcon beyonder. she did most of his feats in a couple of pages
I know. He just wanted some feat. But as me, you also know that against THOTI she won't matter.And about LT going against THOTI and not PreR Beyonder. That doesn't mean anything, since Thor, Hulk and others went also against THOTI.
Akhenaten mastered THOTI, Thanos got it and still made a joke out of Akhenatan like he did anyone else. Akhenatan would make a joke out of LT just as THOTI did. To THOTI it doesn't matter.
Akhenatan>PreR MM
In your opinion.
Others would get destroyed by the power of THOTI and PreR Beyonder, then THOTI taking out PreR Beyonder.