Revan is the strongest

Started by SIDIOUS 662 pages

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
Marka Ragnos is also called "the most powerful of the most powerful" of the Dark Lords. Ancient Sith could create and wear gauntlets that prevented anything from touching them without consent, blast enemies to dust with Sith spells, drain entire planets with the Force, instakill Jedi enemies, create zombie armies, and much, MUCH more. The Ancient Sith defeated Darth Sidious and brought him to the brink of death. Kreia, who gave accurate history as far as the ancient Sith are concerned, said the Jedi/Sith of her day (yes that means Revan) would be as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the ancient Lords. It's referenced in numerous sources, in-universe and out, clear from everything we see of them in TOTJ, clear from all the talk about the knowledge and secrets of the ancient Sith being lost (e.g. the secrets of cheating death)... the ancient Sith Lords OWNED Revan and Palpatine.
Wow, there is just so much wrong with this....

When did the ancient sith ever defeat Darth Sidious? And Marka calling himself "the most powerful of the most powerful" (most likely refering to his time) does not make him right. Sidious was able to do what just about every ancient sith could do and more.

Sidious is referred to repeatedly (by canon sources, and not just by ASL) as the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the galaxy. That one is pretty easy.

Check The Emperor's Pawns. Darth Sidious got his butt kicked so hard by the ancient Sith he had to recover in a bacta tank for a long, long time. His flesh decayed, and his Hands rushed to save his life, and even went off to get a clone from Byss, expecting Sidious' death.

Why? Sidious asked the ancient Sith for more power and knowledge of the dark side. (Why if he was anywhere near as powerful as them?) They weren't too happy about that. 😉 We see them next in DE; they were certainly quite derisive of Sidious.

Marka Ragnos being "the most powerful of the most powerful" is actually an OOU quote. As you say, it could be interpreted as meaning of his time. Then again, the quotes regarding Palpatine can be interpreted as meaning political power; Dan Wallace, when defending this, talked about Sidious' political accomplishments, not how his Force power exceeded that of the ancient Sith. And of course, sometimes quotes can just be incorrect; one source, for instance, says it was Ragnos who appeared to crown Kun and Qel-Droma.

I also will mention Palpatine is usually referred to as the most powerful of his time, or the most powerful of the modern incarnation of the Sith (the Star Wars databank, and of course the movie novelizations, often, if not usually, refer to the Sith as the modern incarnation of the Sith), not that he surpassed the ancient Lords. Just see what the ancient Sith could do with the Force. Compare it to Palpatine. For example, if Palpatine had just one of the abilities of the ancient Sith, he could have been beheaded by Yoda... and survived through Sith magic. Of course if he had the power of the ancient Sith he would never have lost against Yoda, seeing as he would have just used a Sith spell to blast his enemy into dust.

Numerous EU works indicate or state outright the ancient Sith were superior in terms of Force powers and combat abilities, and I'm talking both IU and OOU here.

This is terrific. Bonus points if your Sorgo.

I'm pretty sure Palpatine did once say that he anally mastered with the mummified phallus of Marka Ragnos to give him strength.

AncientSithLord
Check The Emperor's Pawns. Darth Sidious got his butt kicked so hard by the ancient Sith he had to recover in a bacta tank for a long, long time. His flesh decayed, and his Hands rushed to save his life, and even went off to get a clone from Byss, expecting Sidious' death.

"Long, long time?"

"Yes; Palpatine was assaulted by the ghosts of several Dark Lords on Korriban. The fact that he is the single most powerful dark side magus ever documented does not mean he is invulnerable. If a squadron of heavy cruisers sinks a battleship, does that prove that each individual cruiser is the better of the battleship?" -- Publius, SDN.

AncientSithLord
Why? Sidious asked the ancient Sith for more power and knowledge of the dark side. (Why if he was anywhere near as powerful as them?) They weren't too happy about that. We see them next in DE; they were certainly quite derisive of Sidious.

...The Dark Empire Sourcebook and other sources go into detail how the Emperor attempted to gain dominion over all existing sources of Force-related information. That he wanted to obtain knowledge from the ancient Sith in no way indicates that they are more powerful than he was.

You want to argue this, take it up with my essay on the subject. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant to the conclusion unless backed up by sources.