Myth, Legend and Religion

So i bn rereading some old Legends of gods, demons, angels and various mythological creatures like Demigods... i started thinking if all these creatures and beings did actually exist but were simply embellished in oral stories that would later be handed down and written about in religions perpetuating a believe of divine beings and certain religions.

Could giants really have walked the land in ancient times their description and modern medical evidence suggest that certain "giant" attributes can be found in modern humans and have scientific names for their condition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

some biblical accounts of giants were that they were extremely tall, as far as i know some modern men can grow to be 7 ft tall maybe some extreme rare case perhaps could grow to be 9 ft tall.. could ancient man have simply exaggerated when describing 9ft or 12 ft giant men?

keep in mind that ancient man average height could have bn no more then in the 5'5" ft area so to them a man being between 6 to 7 or maybe 8 ft tall would be a giant..

another description of giant men were that some had 6 digit fingers, we know that modern humans do possess that mutated trait..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyly

another is that some giants even had double row set of teeth again not an unheard of condition in modern world but to an ancient man with little understanding could attribute these characteristic as unholy or supernatural....

their have bn a burial site in Nevada where giant skeletons were found and had the average height of 7 ft and also red hair on a continent where such a trait should not have bn likely to occur.

another genetic deformity that is now known and recognized is the bone growth in some human's skulls (horns) it is very rare but it does happen and it is documented and known.. early man again would have or could have confused these traits to being supernatural and the ppl being afflicted to them as being goat men saytrs, demons, even divine beings or gods...

http://thehumanmarvels.com/?p=78
http://prosites-wonesac.homestead.com/History_Unusual_Remains.html

also lets not forget the wolf boys who have the condition known as hypertrichosis easily could have bn confused as a werewolves forest creatures like a satyr or ape men ,wild men.. most of these ppl would have bn shunned and would have hid away maybe others would have taken advantage and declared themselves supernatural or godly beings demigods...

http://www.mexicancircus.com/wolfboys.htm

is it possible that some of these traits could have bn found on one single person in ancient times? a Giant afflicted with more then one genetic deformity which in turn would give rise to legends and myths of nephilims and or other various mythological beings?

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Races.html

now we also have myth heroes and demigods these men could have simply have bn a product of good healthy genetics, breeding and environment upbringing in a place where ur average person would have struggled and been malnourished and short could these god men not simply have bn our version of a modern athlete?

http://www.returnofthenephilim.com/GiantBonesDiscoveries.html

discuss and argue among one another of the possibility of actual saytrs, nephilim and demigods being real but not in the supernatural sense but in a more mundane genetic freak type sense and one person possessing more then one mutation...

could the stories have bn somewhat factual or just fiction without an iota of truth in it.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
So i bn rereading some old Legends of gods, demons, angels and various mythological creatures like Demigods... i started thinking if all these creatures and beings did actually exist but were simply embellished in oral stories that would later be handed down and written about in religions perpetuating a believe of divine beings and certain religions.

Could giants really have walked the land in ancient times their description and modern medical evidence suggest that certain "giant" attributes can be found in modern humans and have scientific names for their condition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

some biblical accounts of giants were that they were extremely tall, as far as i know some modern men can grow to be 7 ft tall maybe some extreme rare case perhaps could grow to be 9 ft tall.. could ancient man have simply exaggerated when describing 9ft or 12 ft giant men?

keep in mind that ancient man average height could have bn no more then in the 5'5" ft area so to them a man being between 6 to 7 or maybe 8 ft tall would be a giant..

A race of giant humans would never survive on Earth unless they had dramatically superhuman physiology. Just look at all the medical problems that the world's tallest men have to deal with.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
now we also have myth heroes and demigods these men could have simply have bn a product of good healthy genetics, breeding and environment upbringing in a place where ur average person would have struggled and been malnourished and short could these god men not simply have bn our version of a modern athlete?

Yes this is possible. Just as we exaggerate how great modern athletes are (Bruce Lee can totally beat a tank in a fight) early man would have done the same thing.

There is evidence a similar effects happening. The story of Atlantis is hypothesized to refer to the Minoans of Crete who towered over their contemporaries with the superhuman feat of building a four story castle. Time goes by and the story kept up with technology until it says that they had lasers and flying cities.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
discuss and argue among one another of the possibility of actual saytrs, nephilim and demigods being real but not in the supernatural sense but in a more mundane genetic freak type sense and one person possessing more then one mutation...

The needed mutations don't line up very well. Urban legend style exaggerations sparked by competition strike me as much more likely.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
could the stories have bn somewhat factual or just fiction without an iota of truth in it.

A story doesn't have to be factual at all to transmit an important Truth.

@ Symmetric Chaos

so you dont think it could have bn possible for a race of giant men ranging from 6 to 7 ft tall to exist in ancient times?

keep in mind not all giants possessed the same trade some were taller then others some had bad teeth and an extra digit.

could these men simply interbred within their race and could have bn the cause of their deformities/mutations?

how would being and extra foot or two in height bn so detrimental to them?

there are modern african tribes whose height average is 7 ft tall in an area where game is not too abundant and struggle to hunt and feed themselves... another tribe is called the ostrich feet tribe accurately known as The Vadoma tribe also derogatorily referred to as the birdmen.

they have a deformity from interbreeding within their tribe so long that they have deformed feet that some say resembles ostrich feet.

why couldnt a small race or tribe of giants existed in the middle east in ancient times with similar deformities?

if i recall some european giant men like the vikings were tall robust men who lived in a harsh an unforgiving climate. although not giant to us would have bn considered to others as such.

would it be so unlikely that some of these men not bn born with an extra finger like the giants of legend? and if so why not another tall race of men in the middle east not have the same happen to them in a similar harsh environment

dont take offensive i really want to know the odds and what to talk about the possibility of such a think so dont think i am just being a pain or disagreeing with you?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&resnum=0&q=ostrich+tribe&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=TcmzS93-Cs-F-QaH3ZiTAg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CB0QsAQwAw

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
so you dont think it could have bn possible for a race of giant men ranging from 6 to 7 ft tall to exist in ancient times?

If there were an entire race of them, there would be some fossil record of them. As it is, there is none whatsoever. Now, which do think is more likely, that we've never discovered a single fossil of a race of giants that once existed, or that they never existed? Both are possible, obviously, but one is far more likely. And contrary to some misinformation that exists on the subject, the modern fossil record of our lineage is very comprehensive.

I'm struggling with what exactly you consider to be a giant, though. A certain area of the world where the average height is 7 foot, as you mentioned up there, isn't a tribe of giants. They're just large men. Any larger and, like Smurph said, and there would be too many medical complications for them to have any kind of longevity.

One or two anomalies I could be convinced of, with the proper hard evidence. A race, or even a tribe, much less doubtful. Webbed feet can be lived with consistently. Being 10 foot+ can't, barring some radical physiological superiority to "normal" men.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
why couldnt a small race or tribe of giants existed in the middle east in ancient times with similar deformities?

They could have, but that's not the point. The point is that it's impossible to draw anything resembling an affirmation of this without evidence for it, and what you've alluded to in your words and links is not nearly enough, imo.

__________________

The idea that myths are grounded in some historical event or figure is not a new one. Some have plenty of evidence for it (Jesus, for example). But most have no solid basis for confirming it (Zeus, thousands of others, etc). So I think this particular musing takes the idea a bit too far.

Interesting topic, though. I hate coming down as a hardline skeptic on ideas that show genuine curiosity for something that's relatively harmless. But I also won't hold back my opinion.

now i am not saying they were actual mythological giants that are actually tall and robust and at an extreme height.

i was using the word giant as to how some one of ancient times would have described a modern average tall man.. perhaps a giant to them would have bn some one that was 6'2" maybe in extreme cases taller possibly reaching 7 ft...

i am not saying their would be a large race of giant men in ancient time but, why cant their be a group of ppl or tribe or an area where their men are taller more robust then ur average ancient man? that in itself is not unlikely or unheard of.. i personally have no problem believing in a group of men or tribe in the middle east whose average height could have bn some where in the 6 ft range as the norm and given rise to the legend of giants..

to me a race of such men or tribe could have bn small only numbering in the few 100 if that and simply spread out or mixed with the local population and slowly decrease their height they could also be the reason for certain men of legend who were great strong warriors simply b/c they were taller stronger then the norm.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Tallest-People-in-the-World-61130.shtml

dont you take this from me digi... let me muse... you probably tell a kid santa clause isnt real.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
now i am not saying they were actual mythological giants that are actually tall and robust and at an extreme height.

i was using the word giant as to how some one of ancient times would have described a modern average tall man.. perhaps a giant to them would have bn some one that was 6'2" maybe in extreme cases taller possibly reaching 7 ft...

i am not saying their would be a large race of giant men in ancient time but, why cant their be a group of ppl or tribe or an area where their men are taller more robust then ur average ancient man? that in itself is not unlikely or unheard of.. i personally have no problem believing in a group of men or tribe in the middle east whose average height could have bn some where in the 6 ft range as the norm and given rise to the legend of giants..

to me a race of such men or tribe could have bn small only numbering in the few 100 if that and simply spread out or mixed with the local population and slowly decrease their height they could also be the reason for certain men of legend who were great strong warriors simply b/c they were taller stronger then the norm.

The term for what you're thinking of would be "an army". Aside from potential medical issues huge people also need more food which would make a group like that unable to sustain itself without outside support. An emperor of the time could have made his own version of the Potsdam Giants. Like the Spartans they (or people afraid of them) might have produced a mythic history about being descended from truly giant men.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
now i am not saying they were actual mythological giants that are actually tall and robust and at an extreme height.

i was using the word giant as to how some one of ancient times would have described a modern average tall man.. perhaps a giant to them would have bn some one that was 6'2" maybe in extreme cases taller possibly reaching 7 ft...

i am not saying their would be a large race of giant men in ancient time but, why cant their be a group of ppl or tribe or an area where their men are taller more robust then ur average ancient man? that in itself is not unlikely or unheard of.. i personally have no problem believing in a group of men or tribe in the middle east whose average height could have bn some where in the 6 ft range as the norm and given rise to the legend of giants..

to me a race of such men or tribe could have bn small only numbering in the few 100 if that and simply spread out or mixed with the local population and slowly decrease their height they could also be the reason for certain men of legend who were great strong warriors simply b/c they were taller stronger then the norm.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Tallest-People-in-the-World-61130.shtml

What myths specifically reference heroes of gigantic proportions? I just think that the whole deal seems unlikely. The classic hero myth (see: works of Joseph Campbell) draws from similar ideas and themes, but the actual physical appearance of the hero has little to do with it.

It would also seem far more likely to me that any "giant" hero figure would have attained such status because of the stature of their legend, not their physical stature...the immensity of a hero's deeds are far more likely to survive retelling than trivial details of appearance. And also just as likely (or moreso) that an average-sized hero grew in size as the telling of his tale grew. Jesus is depicted as white in the States more often than not, for example...appearance shifts according to culture. Stature is only metaphorical.

But let's take David and Goliath. Classic mythological giant. It's doubtful he ever existed. It seems far more like a token "giant evil" to stand in as a metaphor, and to display the power of faith in the face of "giant" adversity. He doesn't seem like an actual person, in other words. To me at least.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
dont you take this from me digi... let me muse... you probably tell a kid santa clause isnt real.

He's not real. Now take it like a man and quit yer cryin'

😛

Originally posted by Digi
What myths specifically reference heroes of gigantic proportions?

i was thinking more along the lines of being strong powerful men whose height would have attributed to their adventures of strength and various feats due to being above average height of the time.

Someone like Hercules comes to mind with his large stride when recounting the legend of him being responsible for some of the olympic games...

his strength feats of legends could have simply bn something that they used to exaggerate his above average strength..

i am sure there are myths of various heroes of gigantic proportions from across the globe but i am trying to focus mostly toward legends of the middle east and the roman empire..

so the only giants i am currently aware of, of that time that didnt reach the fantastic heights of beings like the ancient Titans size of mountain ranges were the supposed offspring of passed Giants Goliath and Gog. these two seem more plausible who may have slightly bn exaggerated in retelling of their stories.

also during the moses wandering in the desert and coming across a city of giants... the claiming that they felt like grasshoppers is their way of saying how small they felt compared to them...

these giants could have simply bn men of above average height in the 6 ft range when the average man of the time would have bn in the mid 5 ft range...

even in modern times some ppl have described their fellow man as giants from their perspective of awe and worship or fear...

there was a holocaust account of a woman who described the allied soldiers who had come to rescue them after liberating a concentration camp.

she described the soldiers who stood b4 her as giant men who picked her up as if she were a child that her guardian angels had come... her recount of her story some 100's of yrs or 1000's of yrs may one day be taken as literal and the ppl not knowing the full account or context of her story may consider it fictitious ....

another modern example was when i was in Iraq some of the locals described some of us as being like giants in height and strength.

me being average i had a local who seemed about my height but i was so used to being around soldiers and various nations warriors that to me he seemed like a man child small below what i would consider weight and strength class as well as below average muscle mass..

he used to follow me to the gym since he worked on base and would want to work out with me, i was able to casually lift 3x times what he did and he was constantly impressed... to me i was just an average man to him i was above average... i also think he might have bn bi now that i think about it i know he was cause he would tell me i was handsome, good looking and ask if i had a GF back home.. hmm.... 😘

maybe he was just flattering me.. 😕

also some links of supposed digs sites burial of above average men

http://hubpages.com/hub/Human-Giants
http://paranormal.about.com/od/mysteriousremains/a/aa060605.html
http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/N.Am/hidden.proofs.giant.race.html
http://www.sydhav.no/giants/overview.htm

Myths describe giant people usually as being powerful warriors but people with gigantism are usually less coordinated and healthy than regular people, so I doubt it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Myths describe giant people usually as being powerful warriors but people with gigantism are usually less coordinated and healthy than regular people, so I doubt it.

could a tall man in ancient times with 6 fingers bn possible for the legends and stories of nephilims?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Myths describe giant people usually as being powerful warriors but people with gigantism are usually less coordinated and healthy than regular people, so I doubt it.

There are 7ft(+) basketball players and mixed martial artists.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
even in modern times some ppl have described their fellow man as giants from their perspective of awe and worship or fear...

there was a holocaust account of a woman who described the allied soldiers who had come to rescue them after liberating a concentration camp.

she described the soldiers who stood b4 her as giant men who picked her up as if she were a child that her guardian angels had come... her recount of her story some 100's of yrs or 1000's of yrs may one day be taken as literal and the ppl not knowing the full account or context of her story may consider it fictitious ....

another modern example was when i was in Iraq some of the locals described some of us as being like giants in height and strength.

Examples like these only strengthen my argument, because we know there aren't 8 foot mammoths stalking around the armed forces saving individuals. The perceived physical stature becomes metaphoric for the nature of of their deeds. Multiply this phenomenon by thousands of years and you can begin to see the depth of my argument: no actual physical characteristics have survived from antiquity, and are merely standards applied to heroes who did something heroic.

It's also, as before, far more likely that these myths (Herc, etc.) weren't actual people, but a steady modification of stories told throughout cultures.

Your links generally seem to fall into two categories as well: links about giant-ness in various forms, and links about myths. The tether you create between them lacks evidence, which is necessary for any theory to be considered viable.

Your ideas are possible, but there's no good way to confirm them, so this thread is likely doomed to run in circles:
"Well what about this....?"
"Possible, but unlikely."
"Well what about..."
etc. etc.

And beware sites like the "Humans with Horns" one. Baloney detectors in your head should start going off. Ask yourself why no one in the general population has ever heard of it if we can confirm that the bones are real. Stories like that, corroborated by legit sources, spread like wildfire.

damn ur skepticism Digi and unwillingness to postulate the possible likely occurrence of certain genetic defects in one person...

by the way the human horn thing is real and it is a medical condition..
those sites are just the one i could find that had pictures of them b/c most ppl dont want to entertain the possibility of giants horn men and 6 finger ppl even though they all occur individually in ppl..

NEW YORK, NY – Human beings can actually grow horns, medical journals report. “It certainly does happen from time to time,” declared Dr. S. George Brown, a respected psychiatrist.

What are these horns? Some have been attributed to cortex hyperplasia, cutaneous horns and even tumors. Others have gone completely unexplained. But they have appeared time and time again throughout human history.

just believe digi all you have to do is believe and clap your hands

Digi is scared of giants.

Originally posted by Mindset
Digi is scared of giants.

Originally posted by Mindset
Digi is scared of giants.

Pfft!

scared

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
damn ur skepticism Digi and unwillingness to postulate the possible likely occurrence of certain genetic defects in one person...

by the way the human horn thing is real and it is a medical condition..
those sites are just the one i could find that had pictures of them b/c most ppl dont want to entertain the possibility of giants horn men and 6 finger ppl even though they all occur individually in ppl..

NEW YORK, NY – Human beings can actually grow horns, medical journals report. “It certainly does happen from time to time,” declared Dr. S. George Brown, a respected psychiatrist.

What are these horns? Some have been attributed to cortex hyperplasia, cutaneous horns and even tumors. Others have gone completely unexplained. But they have appeared time and time again throughout human history.

http://weeklyworldnews.com/mutants/8715/horned-humans/

just believe digi all you have to do is believe and clap your hands

The horns are a random mutation then, so rare as to be negligible. Your theory is still trying to piece together disparate elements that have no discernible link. Frankly, it sounds a lot like the many half-baked conspiracy theories out there, that pull together all kinds of information in attempt to create links between them that aren't there. The only degree of separation is that there isn't a secret cabal behind it all.

Because what you've essentially done is rounded up every major defect, disease, mutation, etc. and you're trying to sell that they all existed and directly influenced myths. You have the defects and you have the myths, but the gap between those facts and your entire theory is so ridiculously large as to be impossible to reconcile logically.

Not to mention the other, more likely explanations I've provided for your ideas. Occum's Razor and the like is relatively damning in such comparisons.

So like I said before, barring tangible evidence to directly corroborate your theory, we're left with:

Originally posted by Digi
"Well what about this....?"
"Possible, but unlikely."
"Well what about..."
etc. etc.

So. Believe and clap my hands? No thanks. I tried that for a while, at a Catholic retreat weekend once. Kinda fun, but it didn't stick. But, so long as we're attempting to impart bits of philosophical wisdom, I'd advise you to accept the limitations of our knowledge. Because trying to force a round peg into a square hole just because you want it to fit denies your capacity as a critical thinker, and is an error that is made far too often when dealing with religious, mythological, or paranormal matters.

now i am going to keep my eyes open for a tall 6 and a half man possibly 7 ft with six fingers just so i can post a pic here. and say in ur face!!!

maybe a tall man with a horn or double rowed teeth... run up takes some snap shots and load them up for you and be in ur face!!!

not only is it probable/possible but it is factual!!!

angel_not

also i am not saying every story had some grain of truth or based on something that may have happen just saying maybe one or two could have bn rooted in truth and is no longer recognized as such...

also i am not saying they are magical/mystical and acknowledgement of god's presence.. .. just saying genetic defects could have bn responsible for some stories.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
alos i am not saying every story had some grain of truth or based on something that may have happen just saying maybe one or two could have bn rooted in truth and is no longer recognized as such...

- The word "maybe" identifies the idea as a presumption, not a substantiated theory.

- If the myths are no longer recognized as having come from a factual source, how are we to confirm that they are?

There's the heart of it. You're believing what you want to instead of admitting that we don't and likely can't ever know. Many people do it (all of us to some extent, though some much more than others) and often beliefs fly in the face of contradictory evidence instead of just in the face of no evidence either way. So there's varying degrees of willful denial, and this is far from the most extreme. But that's still what it is.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
also i am not saying they are magical/mystical and acknowledgement of god's presence.. .. just saying genetic defects could have bn responsible for some stories.

Understood. My points stand. Now, I think at this point we are going in circles, so I will attempt to bow out unless I have something new to say. Thanks for the discussion though. Like I said earlier, my abject disagreement with you doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the debate.

well it was nice talking with you i didn't think i was debating or anything just postulating out loud, an electronic sounding board.
i was house and you were my medical department assistance..
i throw out some ideas you guys argue among urselves tell me i am wrong, i point at something make a smart @$$ comment or parable like speech..

you then give me ur take i make fun of u some more, ignore it and go with what i know... and call myself a genius and take credit...

bye the bye many professionals jobs is to speculate no matter how unlikely and come up with what is probable and likely to happen..

lawyers, judges, jury, detectives, profilers, doctors, theorist, archeologoist and various scientist in their fields... i was doing no different with what is more likely to happen between certain likelihood of supernatural or a more mundane explainable reasons while acknowledging the possibility of certain things being somewhat factual or probable instead of saying out right it is all made up and nothing more then stories like comics of ancient times..

just entertaining the idea