Nova w/Worldmind and full Nova Force vs. Mr. Majestic

Originally posted by batdude123
Joe Casey's Superman vibrated (yes... "vibrated"😉 an entire planet to a different dimension, thus saving the DC omniverse. baka

Plus, Casey also had Superman tear through multiple Imperiex Probes like tissue paper when 1 Imperiex Probe was enough to own J'onn, Flash, and GL Kyle at the same time.

I wouldn't underestimate just how powerful Joe Casey's views on Superman are.

Casey has written for both Majestic and Superman. If he says that Superman could have replicated that feat, then I'm inclined to believe him. Certainly it's a more valid opinion on the subject than either yours or mine.

The reason you won't see Superman do something like that is because there's never been a context or situation where something like that is necessary. That being said, however, Superman has stated on multiple occasions that his punches can shatter moons and planets.

Also, nice argument for the Countdown feat. "I don't like it, therefore, it never happened." 👆

Regardless, that's simply one example. In Action Comics 847, Superman travels multiple light years in the time span of less than 3 hours.

Then may I submit the proposition that Joe Casey has a problem with glorifying Superman at the expense of other characters?

I'm inclined to believe that, since Superman has shattered moons. In that case, his words are supported by past events. Characters are also made to say things that are flat-out false e.g. Tony Stark believing that he has never beaten the Hulk or Namor in a straight-up fight. When he has done so multiple times.

Now you're being facetious. Did I say that nothing in Countdown actually happened and shouldn't be considered continuity? No. But nothing in it should be applied to these battles concerning characters.

Example: Captain Atom is defeated by the Monitor Solomon. His skin is ruptured and leaks dangerous amounts of radiation.

Problem: Captain Atom can absorb literally any type of energy and return it to the Quantum Field. He has also shown that he can manipulate energy to prevent opponents from using attacks. Most of the examples when his skin has been ruptured come from specific magical attacks (Crimson Avenger's bullets, which are supposed to go through anything) and X-Ionizer treated weapons.

They provided no explanation of how his skin was broken when he could have (and should have) easily absorbed it.

@Johnny Sorrow,

I'll submit another example. In the WWH/X-men arc, Strong man took a punch from WWH, absorbed it and then punched the hulk back with the energy. He then collapsed after that because of the "heart overload" condition. Problem is, that condition was fixed long ago. He should've taken Hulks punch just fine. Sometimes PIS and/or bad writing happen. I don't know why people just can't except that.

Regarding the current Superman speed feats, which book is considered to be Superman's main title? Sometimes characters with multiple titles are portrayed somewhat inconsistently from book to book. In that case, I often just go with how the character is consistently portrayed in his main title.

Also, Nova wins.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Then may I submit the proposition that Joe Casey has a problem with glorifying Superman at the expense of other characters?

Perhaps, but then again, it still doesn't take away from my point whatsoever.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I'm inclined to believe that

Gravy. 👆

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Now you're being facetious. Did I say that nothing in Countdown actually happened and shouldn't be considered continuity? No. But nothing in it should be applied to these battles concerning characters.

Semantics.

Frankly, what you're suggesting is just as bad.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Example: Captain Atom is defeated by the Monitor Solomon. His skin is ruptured and leaks dangerous amounts of radiation.

Problem: Captain Atom can absorb literally any type of energy and return it to the Quantum Field. He has also shown that he can manipulate energy to prevent opponents from using attacks. Most of the examples when his skin has been ruptured come from specific magical attacks (Crimson Avenger's bullets, which are supposed to go through anything) and X-Ionizer treated weapons.

They provided no explanation of how his skin was broken when he could have (and should have) easily absorbed it.

So because of a questionable instance that occurred during Countdown, we should just ignore everything that happened in the span of those 52 issues?

Terrible reasoning, to say the least.

Also, let's not pretend that Captain Atom hasn't had his fair share of lolzable feats over the years. Comparatively speaking, I've seen much worse from him.

Originally posted by batdude123
Perhaps, but then again, it still doesn't take away from my point whatsoever.

Joe Casey has very strong views on Superman?

Originally posted by batdude123 Gravy. 👆

Watch closely, irony coming up in 3, 2, 1...

Originally posted by batdude123 Semantics.

Frankly, what you're suggesting is just as bad.

And disregarding a character's low-end feats, especially when they conflict with his established powers and aren't explained in the comics, is considered "semantics"? Hilarious, since to claim that you had to take my statement out of context.

Curiously enough, you did the exact same thing with the preceding statement. Forgot into include, you know, the rest of the paragraph:

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
I'm inclined to believe that, since Superman has shattered moons. In that case, his words are supported by past events. Characters are also made to say things that are flat-out false e.g. Tony Stark believing that he has never beaten the Hulk or Namor in a straight-up fight. When he has done so multiple times.

Originally posted by batdude123 So because of a questionable instance that occurred during Countdown, we should just ignore everything that happened in the span of those 52 issues?

Terrible reasoning, to say the least.

Also, let's not pretend that Captain Atom hasn't had his fair share of lolzable feats over the years. Comparatively speaking, I've seen much worse from him.

Look, another phrase taken out-of-context. Because when I say "an example" it really means "my entire justification for my reasoning", no?

Originally posted by dmills
@Johnny Sorrow,

I'll submit another example. In the WWH/X-men arc, Strong man took a punch from WWH, absorbed it and then punched the hulk back with the energy. He then collapsed after that because of the "heart overload" condition. Problem is, that condition was fixed long ago. He should've taken Hulks punch just fine. Sometimes PIS and/or bad writing happen. I don't know why people just can't except that.

Regarding the current Superman speed feats, which book is considered to be Superman's main title? Sometimes characters with multiple titles are portrayed somewhat inconsistently from book to book. In that case, I often just go with how the character is consistently portrayed in his main title.

Also, Nova wins.

Currently, World of New Krypton (technically, Last Stand of New Krypton). He has more leadership and H2H feats in those than his more well known feats.

Agree to disagree. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Joe Casey has very strong views on Superman?

And subsequently, Mr. Majestic.

Therefore, to use a feat written by an author that stated Superman could have replicated said feat in an attempt to prove superiority is asinine.

Comprende?

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
And disregarding a character's low-end feats, especially when they conflict with his established powers and aren't explained in the comics, is considered "semantics"? Hilarious, since to claim that you had to take my statement out of context.

What? baka

To even come to this erroneous conclusion you had to completely misinterpret my statement.

My comment was to you saying, in essence, "I accept Countdown as being canon to DC's continuity, but yet, we should throw out everything that happened during the series and it shouldn't be usable for the vs. forums because I don't like it."

Hence, me saying "Semantics."

Fortunately, that's not how it works on KMC.

KMC is wonderful in the respect that it's established based on the ideas of multiple members of the forums. It isn't subject to change based on the incoherent ramblings of a single poster.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Curiously enough, you did the exact same thing with the preceding statement. Forgot into include, you know, the rest of the paragraph

facepalm

That's because the rest of your paragraph was completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Look, another phrase taken out-of-context. Because when I say "an example" it really means "my entire justification for my reasoning", no?

It doesn't matter what examples you wish to use. The fact of the matter is that there's silly writing in every story arc, every mini series, every crossover, etc. Just because you, idiosyncratically feel that it should be disregarded, doesn't mean it's going to.

Countdown issues will continue to be used on these forums regardless of whether you like it or not. To throw away FIFTY-TWO issues as being unusable on the forums is infinitely more ridiculous than any flaws you find with the writing.

Feel free to respond if you want. To be honest, I really don't have the patience to babysit you through your own mistakes here. You're so far off on this it's pathetic. 😬

@Batdude 123

What Casey says is irrelevant to a forum battle because technically, he could write just about anyone to replicate Majestics feats just by virtue of him being a writer. Isn't Casey the one who came up with the whole vibration/counter-vibration concept?

In the context of a forum debate nothing in Superman's powerset would allow him to replicate Majestics feats precisely.

Originally posted by batdude123
And subsequently, Mr. Majestic.

Therefore, to use a feat written by an author that stated Superman could have replicated said feat in an attempt to prove superiority is asinine.

Comprende?

No, since Joe Casey does not (shockingly enough) write every single story in which Superman appears. Your statement would be more truthful if the character was only written by one author, say Morpheus/Dream or All-Star Superman. Joe Casey's writing of Superman may put them on equal footing, but Superman's powers are judged by the consistency of their portrayal across multiple authors.

What Casey is not more valid or less valid: it is irrelevant. We are talking about Superman in comics, not Joe Casey's idea of Superman in comics.

Originally posted by batdude123
What? baka

To even come to this erroneous conclusion you had to completely misinterpret my statement.

My comment was to you saying, in essence, "I accept Countdown as being canon to DC's continuity, but yet, we should throw out everything that happened during the series and it shouldn't be usable for the vs. forums because I don't like it."

Hence, me saying "Semantics."

Fortunately, that's not how it works on KMC.

KMC is wonderful in the respect that it's established based on the ideas of multiple members of the forums. It isn't subject to change based on the incoherent ramblings of a single poster.

No, Countdown cannot be thrown out the window because I don't like it. It's not my choice to accept whether or not it counts as continuity because it is part of an ongoing story. If I just say "Nothing in Countdown happened because I don't like it", then I have the problem of explaining what happened to the New Gods and several other questions. There would be huge gaps in comic book history because of my personal tastes.

I can reject instances that happen in it if they do not match up with the consistency of appearances in the past. I can reject instances of anything in comics if they are inconsistent and lack a credible explanation behind them. Not deny that they happened, but find them unacceptable as evidence in the forums due to PIS, CIS, and whatever else explains it. And oddly enough, it's the inconsistent writing in Countdown that leads to my distaste for it. 😄

Also, my original statement says:

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Nothing from Countdown should be accepted blindly. It is full of inconsistencies and nonsense. 😘

Blindly. Qualifier right there. Being full of inconsistencies doesn't mean everything in it should be thrown to the dogs. How the hell did you interpret that into this?

Originally posted by batdude123
"I accept Countdown as being canon to DC's continuity, but yet, we should throw out everything that happened during the series and it shouldn't be usable for the vs. forums because I don't like it."

Which means you're saying that I made a claim that I never did. And you talk about semantics. 😂

Originally posted by batdude123 facepalm

That's because the rest of your paragraph was completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Still don't see why. Superman's multiple claims roughly match up to what he has accomplished. If Joe Casey wrote Superman saying that, then at least that part is acceptable compared to how Superman has been written by other writers.

Just because a character claims something doesn't make it so. What if Batman claimed that he was stronger than Aquagirl? No matter how many times he makes this claim, he would still be wrong (or really arrogant). The Tony Stark comment directly references a claim made by a character that is outright false. It's not a general statement either: you can point out specific issues that prove it otherwise. What characters say should not be taken as face value unless it is supported by actual feats.

Anyway, Superman claimed he could destroy planets. It's easier to destroy planets than to move them.

Originally posted by batdude123

It doesn't matter what examples you wish to use. The fact of the matter is that there's silly writing in every story arc, every mini series, every crossover, etc. Just because you, idiosyncratically feel that it should be disregarded, doesn't mean it's going to.

Countdown issues will continue to be used on these forums regardless of whether you like it or not. To throw away FIFTY-TWO issues as being unusable on the forums is infinitely more ridiculous than any flaws you find with the writing.

Feel free to respond if you want. To be honest, I really don't have the patience to babysit you through your own mistakes here. You're so far off on this it's pathetic. 😬

We're obviously on different wavelengths. I never said Countdown should be outright rejected. I said it should not be accepted blindly. Like every work written by every writer in the comic book world. In Countdown's case, you should be even more wary. It's my opinion.

But hey, I'm not the one who places idiosyncratic connotations onto other people's posts. 😇

Originally posted by Endless Mike
How this goes?

Question. Does Nova has full access to the Nova Force during this battle? Even as Nova Prime, he was only given portions of it so that it would not affect his mind and sanity.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
No, since Joe Casey does not (shockingly enough) write every single story in which Superman appears. Your statement would be more truthful if the character was only written by one author, say Morpheus/Dream or All-Star Superman. Joe Casey's writing of Superman may put them on equal footing, but Superman's powers are judged by the consistency of their portrayal across multiple authors.

What Casey is not more valid or less valid: it is irrelevant. We are talking about Superman in comics, not Joe Casey's idea of Superman in comics.

Then how ironic is it that you're using a single author's portrayal of Majestic as evidence of him having superior strength?

Shit goes both ways.

How about the issue of Captain Atom: Armageddon where Captain Atom states that Majestic isn't on Superman's level in terms of strength?

You're using Majestic's top feats in order to define him, and then turning around and criticizing me for bringing up Superman's top feats. Hopefully you can see the hypocrisy in that.

Based on average portrayals, Majestic isn't stronger than Superman.

--------------

As for the rest of your post...

The bottom line is that you were trying to discredit Superman's feat by using a totally unrelated example. Not only that, but you were trying to take away the credibility of the entire series in which it occurred.

In any case, your example doesn't make that feat any less credible or valid considering, as I've pointed out before, there are other instances of Superman going lightyears in a short time-frame.

Oh, and btw, there are other instances of when Atom had his metal skin punctured than the ones you mentioned. It's not as bad as you were making it out to be. 😬 Certainly not bad enough to use it as the personification of what you find wrong Countdown as a whole.

Originally posted by batdude123
Then how ironic is it that you're using a single author's portrayal of Majestic as evidence of him having superior strength?

Shit goes both ways.

How about the issue of Captain Atom: Armageddon where Captain Atom states that Majestic isn't on Superman's level in terms of strength?

You're using Majestic's top feats in order to define him, and then turning around and criticizing me for bringing up Superman's top feats. Hopefully you can see the hypocrisy in that.

It sounds more like he's equating Countdown with Onslaught, e.g. shoddily written and to be taken with a grain of salt. That's not the same as discounting a high end showing for the sake of discounting a high end showing..

As far as Casey being the only one giving Majestic high end showings, Abnet had Majestic one shot Eradicator. If anything, Captain Atom lowballing Majestic is the anomaly.. (And wasn't this an amped up Captain Atom to boot? Maybe even Superman would've seemed weaker than usual?)