Protege Vs Primal Monitor · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Omega Vision Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's an entire infinite dimension of entities/type of sentient lifeforms that create M-bodies
they're called "Fractals" and their prime manifestor is called Anthropomorpho.

Thanks, I've been wondering that for a while. It seems odd someone as powerful as the LT would have to rely on outside help though for manifestation.

Colossus-Big C Restricted

arent they the embodiment of physical matter? or something like that

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by Mr Master
PIS is when a character performs a feat, or can not perform a feat
that's outside and/or beyond/or below the inherent characters power-set.
This is done to either defeat one that can not be defeated (at-least withIn whatever story)
or to bring a story to an end.
So, while I felt at first that it was PIS, I later realized it was not.
This was Protege's and Scathan's only appearances, so this was their character set powers,
therefore no PIS was involved.
False.
In Marvel comics, the M-bodies (fractal in-casings)
house the full power of the sentient abstract conceptual entity it gives form to.
M-bodies NEVER come in fractioned portions of power,
and Quasar 38 or any other issue has never made any statement or allusion to the contrary.
In fact, an Abstract can't make/have a showing without an M-body,
so this unsupported theory ('excuse for lower end showings'😉 is not even possible.
Simple ... Protege copied the full power of the LT and company I mentioned,
then he got stomped by Scathan with a gesture.
This is the on panel fact, this is the fact that's corroborated in the LT's official handbook bio.

It's never explicitly stated, you're right. I'm basing this off of showings like Oblivion being choked to death, or Death being captured by the Elders..

But what we're really talking about is a service for abstracts? Well, it's more efficiant than what The Endless apparently has to do to manifest, like the coming of Daniel Dream..

Didn't Galactus use an M-body though? And Magus commented on using them in the same Quasar issue, 38. They're physical beings, why would they need them?

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by cdtm
It's never explicitly stated, you're right. I'm basing this off of showings like Oblivion being choked to death, or Death being captured by the Elders..
But what we're really talking about is a service for abstracts? Well, it's more efficiant than what The Endless apparently has to do to manifest, like the coming of Daniel Dream..
Didn't Galactus use an M-body though? And Magus commented on using them in the same Quasar issue, 38. They're physical beings, why would they need them?

Anyways, I wouldn't consider it PIS copying LT's full power set any more than Black Alice taking on The Spectres powers..

But Protege still went down pretty easy, for someone who claimed he was basically the One Above All at that point (Basically, not just LT powerful but stronger than LT powerful.)

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by cdtm
It's never explicitly stated, you're right. I'm basing this off of showings like Oblivion being choked to death, or Death being captured by the Elders..

Actually it was the Anamoly that was choked by Maelstrom, and that was PIS imo.
Death allowed the Elders their moment, to manipulate other events.

Originally posted by cdtm
But what we're really talking about is a service for abstracts?

Correct. That's the Fractals' only purpose,
but they can make M-bodys for physical beings as well,
this happens when a physical being wants to make an appearance somewhere
without actually (physically) having to be there.

Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't Galactus use an M-body though?
And Magus commented on using them in the same Quasar issue, 38. They're physical beings, why would they need them?

Addressed right above.

Prep-Man Senior Member

PM wins.

King Kandy Senior Member

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually it was the Anamoly that was choked by Maelstrom, and that was PIS imo.

That was such a strange showing. It seems like every writer has a different idea of what happens when you kill an abstract. Some have it doing nothing at all, and the abstract just reconstituting (1st Eternity/Dormammu), some have the concept they represent disappearing altogether (Death/Beyonder), and some have it being whoever kills it takes over it's role (Maelstrom/Anomaly).

It's all messed up.

Xplosive Restricted

Protege is one of the most powerful beings ever in comic history. He would stomp LT and others (he was already on a good way to stomp them), if not for Scathan. Actually, Primal Monitor (The Presence) is probably the only one from DC who would defeat Protege. From such being as Mxy, Spectre, Aniti-Monitor, Mandrakk, he would make a joke out of them.

Prep-Man Senior Member

The guy from Checkmate could probably beat him as well. He did adapt to take down Michael.

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by Prep-Man
The guy from Checkmate could probably beat him as well. He did adapt to take down Michael.

Who now?

Not the Archangel Michael? He died in Lucifer's story, unless this happened in Lucifer.. But I've read it, and don't recall a human taking him down.

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by Xplosive
Protege is one of the most powerful beings ever in comic history. He would stomp LT and others (he was already on a good way to stomp them), if not for Scathan. Actually, Primal Monitor (The Presence) is probably the only one from DC who would defeat Protege. From such being as Mxy, Spectre, Aniti-Monitor, Mandrakk, he would make a joke out of them.

But.. he DIDN'T stomp them! 😱

If he had the power, maybe he didn't have the skill to use it? Either way, they took him down.

Omega Vision Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

^ If only the fool had thought to copy the powers of Scathan. 🙄

Xplosive Restricted

Originally posted by cdtm
But.. he DIDN'T stomp them! 😱

I said would stomp them. He couldn't stomp them because of Scathan.

Originally posted by cdtm
If he had the power, maybe he didn't have the skill to use it? Either way, they took him down.

He would put them down. It's just that Scathan was there.

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by Omega Vision
^ If only the fool had thought to copy the powers of Scathan. 🙄

Yeah, I know. 😂

You'd think Scathan would be far enough blow LT where it shouldn't matter if Protege copied his powers or not.

That's why I'm saying either Protege just didn't know what he was doing, and "could" have weathered that attack if he had a little time with his new powers (And this is kind of supported by Beyonder training the kid, meaning just because he copies cosmic powers doesn't mean he has the knowledge to use it), or he didn't really have as much power as he thought he did (E.g, he copied something off of LT, but it wasn't his full power set. Maybe it's impossible to copy LT's full powers...)

There aren't too many other ways of looking at it. \

rotiart Stan Lee Stole my name

@mr master
I'm good friend but you know how I feel about thy storyline... The same way I feel about thanos calling himself god or anyone calling a character omnipotent.

The fact that he could be defeated at all by anyone other than himself does not make him toaa.

Although I guess you can be above living tribunal and below toaa now that I think about living tribunals dealings with pre retcon brothers/ beyonder/ protege... Etc

Omega Vision Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

Originally posted by rotiart
@mr master
I'm good friend but you know how I feel about thy storyline... The same way I feel about thanos calling himself god or anyone calling a character omnipotent.
The fact that he could be defeated at all by anyone other than himself does not make him toaa.
Although I guess you can be above living tribunal and below toaa now that I think about living tribunals dealings with pre retcon brothers/ beyonder/ protege... Etc

How do you feel about Scathan though? Do you also put him above LT like Master or do you think it was just PIS and shit writing that should be ignored?

Prep-Man Senior Member

Originally posted by cdtm
Who now?
Not the Archangel Michael? He died in Lucifer's story, unless this happened in Lucifer.. But I've read it, and don't recall a human taking him down.

Chimera. I believe he turned INTO Michael. Sorry, I haven't read it in a long time.

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by cdtm
That's why I'm saying either Protege just didn't know what he was doing, and "could" have weathered that attack if he had a little time with his new powers (And this is kind of supported by Beyonder training the kid, meaning just because he copies cosmic powers doesn't mean he has the knowledge to use it), or he didn't really have as much power as he thought he did (E.g, he copied something off of LT, but it wasn't his full power set. Maybe it's impossible to copy LT's full powers...)
There aren't too many other ways of looking at it.

There is one more way to look at it, the way it was portrayed on panel,
and the way the official Marvel handbook supports what was portrayed on panel.

Protege copied the full power
of the LT/Eternity/Hawkgod/Beyonder/Mephisto/Malevolence & GOTG.

Beyonder stated: "any and all Realities rests on the boys shoulders" ... (the Omniverse)

The Writer himself then tells us how the LT/Eternity & Hawkgod feel about what Beyonder said:

For the LT its: "logical confirmation" 🙂

That aside,
the LT had to draw on external power that was not his own to supplement his own
in order to judge Protege.

That aside, the LT's own official handbook bio tells us that Protege copied the LT's power
and nearly usurped his position, (Protege was about to erase the LT and company)
right before Scathan came through with majesty and stomped Protege with a gesture
thus saving the Omniverse.

(just like it happened on panel)

That aslo aside,
Beyonder telling Protege about the cosmics (he wasn't training Protege)
has nothing to do with Protege being limited in his effectiveness with these powers he absorbed.

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by rotiart
The fact that he could be defeated at all by anyone other than himself does not make him toaa.

I never said he was anything close to TOAA, that was Protege fantasizing.

Originally posted by rotiart
Although I guess you can be above living tribunal and below toaa now that I think about living tribunals dealings with pre retcon brothers/ beyonder/ protege... Etc

Yea good friend, Protege definitely became more powerful than the LT.

And therefore this makes Scathan a beast.

Omega Vision Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

Originally posted by Mr Master
I never said he was anything close to TOAA, that was Protege fantasizing.
Yea good friend, Protege definitely became more powerful than the LT.
And therefore this makes Scathan a beast.

I heard a theory on another site that Scathan was merely temporarily boosted by TOAA to be strong enough to defeat Protege. It has no real backing in the comic but it makes more sense than "Scathan is just a Celestial who somehow is > LT."

Because if that were the case and Scathan > LT then wouldn't that make him in effect more powerful than all his fellow Celestials combined? That sounds fishy.