Jaina vs Bastila

Started by Q993 pages

Red Nemesis

Who the hell is Rohlan Dyre and why is deflecting blaster bolts an impressive feat now?

An extremely badass Mandalorian, something of a legend among them during the Mandalorian wars.

We also learn he has significant force potential and had unconsciously used it, he just didn't know it.

Originally posted by Shoes
Does it?

Yes.

We know what he did. We know what people he fought did. We know what people they fought and trained with did. We have 50 issues and two games worth of stuff from the era.

From simple comparison, we can get a general view of his area at the least.

Our best data on Revan is on his generalship, but we are not operating in an information void by any means.

Originally posted by Q99

Yes.

Specify.

/off topic

Bastila did nothign

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Who the hell is Rohlan Dyre and why is deflecting blaster bolts an impressive feat now?

Rohlan Dyre was one of the commanders in Mandalorian forces and a highly skilled and respected warrior.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Does this mean that TPM Kenobi is as powerful as Malak?

The difference is that Malak managed to overpower Rohlan despite the skill and gadgets of latter.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Inside a dark side nexus. Against two generic Jedi. Neither of which have a name, let alone a feat. (Who may even have had the same face?)

Let us think logically - How did those two Jedi got that far? We do see several Jedi Strike Teams entering Star Forge. Among them, those two would have great skill to reach that far amidst the heavy resistance. However, they eventually met Malak and he incapacitated them with his Force powers simultaneously and killed them in front of Revan.

Originally posted by Shoes
Elaborate. Did he even achieve mastery?

According to Drew, he did.

Legend, are you ever going to respond to the thread where you got caught blatantly lying about your original argument? Remember? cause then you disappeared for 8 months, and now you are back spewing the same crap?

I'm very interested on seeing how you wiggle out of it. I was interested then, and I've not yet lost interest.

Originally posted by truejedi
Legend, are you ever going to respond to the thread where you got caught blatantly lying about your original argument? Remember? cause then you disappeared for 8 months, and now you are back spewing the same crap?

I'm very interested on seeing how you wiggle out of it. I was interested then, and I've not yet lost interest.


No! My response is not coming in that thread. I would let it die.

I am back not to solely argue for KoTOR but to participate in all topics of interest.

As is the case in this thread, my arguments will be strictly based on what has been depicted in proper and reliable sources and opinions of authors. Personal opinion is a thing of the past now. I would advice you to move on as well.

That wasn't Rohlan Dyre, that was Deamgol disguised as Rohlan. Not to mention that Malak did nothing impressive during those comics. JJM adheres to the Not Faster Than An Eyeblink School of Jedi abilities, so we have Malak getting beaten by non Force sensitive Jareel, punched in the face by Deamgol (he later nearly beat the shit out of Deamgol, but the still surprised him), and flattened by Mandalore.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100312063521/starwars/images/7/70/MalakDyreFight1.jpg

Originally posted by Autokrat
That wasn't Rohlan Dyre, that was Deamgol disguised as Rohlan.

My bad!

However, Demagol could use the Force (being a Force sensitive), was nonetheless a Mandalorian warrior, and a big nemesis to Jedi (specially known for performing experiments on Jedi captives). While he engaged Malak, he was well prepared: Using jetpack for keeping safe distance and firing relentlessly with twin blasters. And yet, Malak effortlessly deflected his fire and overpowered him.

Originally posted by Autokrat
Not to mention that Malak did nothing impressive during those comics. JJM adheres to the Not Faster Than An Eyeblink School of Jedi abilities,

Malak only began to show his potential once he reached the rank of the commander during the Mandalorian Wars. In addition, The KoTOR comics are not expected to cover the Mandalorian Wars till the end and his embrace of the dark side. However, the Star Wars Databank briefly covers the scenario like this: Foremost among the heroes of this era were the Jedi warriors Malak and Revan. Revan's clever military strategies proved successful time and again, while Malak gained a reputation as a headstrong warrior who would recklessly charge into danger.

Originally posted by Autokrat
so we have Malak getting beaten by non Force sensitive Jareel,

Malak had soft corner for her. It wasn't a duel of life and death for him. He also did not used any Force powers.

Originally posted by Autokrat
punched in the face by Deamgol (he later nearly beat the shit out of Deamgol, but the still surprised him),

Malak would have killed Demagol, if his companions would not have stopped him. The guise of Rohlan also helped Demagol.

Originally posted by Autokrat
and flattened by Mandalore.

Malak got outclassed by his attack. However, he decided not to fight him at that time.

Originally posted by truejedi
Legend, are you ever going to respond to the thread where you got caught blatantly lying about your original argument? Remember? cause then you disappeared for 8 months, and now you are back spewing the same crap?

I'm very interested on seeing how you wiggle out of it. I was interested then, and I've not yet lost interest.


No!

LMFAO

😆

You guys! Don't push him away, we need the arguments!

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Rohlan Dyre was one of the commanders in Mandalorian forces and a highly skilled and respected warrior.

He still wasn't a trained force user, which means his chances to survive confrontation with Jedi (regardless of their skill-level) were pretty low. And please: padawans are capable of deflecting (and even redirecting) blaster shots. Some are even capable of handling more than one opponent shooting at them. So where is the display of skill. Malak can block two blaster pistols fired by one individual? ANH Luke could probably pull that off (while wearing a helmet with visor down, making him blind).


The difference is that Malak managed to overpower Rohlan despite the skill and gadgets of latter.

In AotC Kenobi almost kills Jango Fett, a guy who had killed Jedi with his bare hands, despite of the Mandalorians gimmicks and the fact that he got fire support from a freakin space-ship. So Malak < AotC Kenobi? Somehow I don't find that impressive.


Let us think logically - How did those two Jedi got that far? We do see several Jedi Strike Teams entering Star Forge. Among them, those two would have great skill to reach that far amidst the heavy resistance. However, they eventually met Malak and he incapacitated them with his Force powers simultaneously and killed them in front of Revan.

You call that "logical thinking"?

Did you, by chance, forget that Revan drew most of the attention (translation: enemies) to himself (and his company), which would have allowed the other Jedi to slip through the Star Forge with relative few opponents in their way? May I also remind you that said opponents would have consisted of either droids (lol) or the Sith War equivalent of storm troopers (rofl)? And even that only applies if they didn't switch on their handy stealth devices and sneak through the station without confronting a single enemy.

And WTF: We don't know what happened before the two Jedi appeared in the cut-scene. They could have been disabled by other people and just brought to Malak for interrogation or execution. If they had actually fought their way to Malak, their wouldn't have been any opponents left for Revan, correct? But since there were enemies presents "thinking logically" leads to the conclusion that neither did they fought their way through the Star Forge nor did Malak overpower them personally. He just executed two already defenseless people...

This renders your pity argument void.


However, Demagol could use the Force (being a Force sensitive), was nonetheless a Mandalorian warrior, and a big nemesis to Jedi (specially known for performing experiments on Jedi captives). While he engaged Malak, he was well prepared: Using jetpack for keeping safe distance and firing relentlessly with twin blasters. And yet, Malak effortlessly deflected his fire and overpowered him.

Ulic Qel-Droma was capable of doing the same - with the difference that his opponent was sitting on a freaking Basilisk war mount. Kenobi essentially did the same - with the difference that his opponent was assisted by a star-ship firing at the Jedi. Yoda in RotS is seen to deflect blaster fire from eight Clone Troopers at the same time without effort - just to cut them all down in seconds after doing so. If you want to take the Clone War Cartoon as example, serveral Jedi were capable of taking entire armies down on their own.

So what is so impressive about defeating a single guy with two blasters? I don't know too many Jedi who would fail at a task like that...


However, the Star Wars Databank briefly covers the scenario like this: Foremost among the heroes of this era were the Jedi warriors Malak and Revan. Revan's clever military strategies proved successful time and again, while Malak gained a reputation as a headstrong warrior who would recklessly charge into danger.

I must have missed the testament to Malak's power there. So he is headstrong and recklessly charges into danger? I bet one could say the same about Han Solo, but he seldomly appears on the "list of powerful SW characters". I wonder why...


Malak got outclassed by his attack. However, he decided not to fight him at that time.

So Malak is so powerful, that he gets his ass kicked by a trained warrior without force powers? Wow... 🙄

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jaina probably.

Quoted for agreement.

Bastila. Quite easily I say.

Ancient Force-users just had a lot more powers in their arsenal, really. We're talking Force waves, Force storms, Force Drain... Remember the duel against Bastila on the Star Forge? Has Jaina ever displayed anything close to that?

Originally posted by Borbarad He still wasn't a trained force user, which means his chances to survive confrontation with Jedi (regardless of their skill-level) were pretty low. And please: padawans are capable of deflecting (and even redirecting) blaster shots. Some are even capable of handling more than one opponent shooting at them. So where is the display of skill. Malak can block two blaster pistols fired by one individual? ANH Luke could probably pull that off (while wearing a helmet with visor down, making him blind).

We are talking about Mandalorians and not average Sith and Republic Troopers. Mandalorians are supposed to be tough opponents for even Jedi.

In AotC Kenobi almost kills Jango Fett, a guy who had killed Jedi with his bare hands, despite of the Mandalorians gimmicks and the fact that he got fire support from a freakin space-ship. So Malak < AotC Kenobi? Somehow I don't find that impressive.

Did Malak failed?

He overpowered his foe and would have killed him. The guise of Rohlan and Malak's companions saved Demagol from death.

You call that "logical thinking"?

Did you, by chance, forget that Revan drew most of the attention (translation: enemies) to himself (and his company), which would have allowed the other Jedi to slip through the Star Forge with relative few opponents in their way? May I also remind you that said opponents would have consisted of either droids (lol) or the Sith War equivalent of storm troopers (rofl)? And even that only applies if they didn't switch on their handy stealth devices and sneak through the station without confronting a single enemy.


This does not means that other Jedi were not facing resistance. We clearly see Jedi Strike Teams engaging in combat. Also! The focus of KoTOR was on actions of Revan rather than on Jedi Strike Teams. In addition, we do not see any Jedi on the Star Forge using stealth devices.

And WTF: We don't know what happened before the two Jedi appeared in the cut-scene. They could have been disabled by other people and just brought to Malak for interrogation or execution. If they had actually fought their way to Malak, their wouldn't have been any opponents left for Revan, correct? But since there were enemies presents "thinking logically" leads to the conclusion that neither did they fought their way through the Star Forge nor did Malak overpower them personally. He just executed two already defenseless people...

This renders your pity argument void.


Maybe! There were other paths? Some doors on Star Forge were locked which indicate as such. Malak indeed directed a large chunk of his forces to stop Revan from advancing which helps your point. However, Star Forge was still not safe in other corners. Malak did not wanted any of his enemies to reach him. However, two other Jedi besides Revan did. And it would be more accurate to suggest that Malak executed two trained Jedi. They were defenseless due to unable to counter Malak's power in the force.

Ulic Qel-Droma was capable of doing the same - with the difference that his opponent was sitting on a freaking Basilisk war mount. Kenobi essentially did the same - with the difference that his opponent was assisted by a star-ship firing at the Jedi. Yoda in RotS is seen to deflect blaster fire from eight Clone Troopers at the same time without effort - just to cut them all down in seconds after doing so. If you want to take the Clone War Cartoon as example, serveral Jedi were capable of taking entire armies down on their own.

Ulic and Kenobi count among the best of the Jedi. And I saw Yoda capable of destroying a portion of a Droid army in CW. Several others you are talking about were assisted by entire battalions as well.

So what is so impressive about defeating a single guy with two blasters? I don't know too many Jedi who would fail at a task like that...

A reputed Mandalorian would be more accurate term. It was just the begining. Malak, later on, earned recognition for engaging in dangerous battles and winning them.

I must have missed the testament to Malak's power there. So he is headstrong and recklessly charges into danger? I bet one could say the same about Han Solo, but he seldomly appears on the "list of powerful SW characters". I wonder why...

You are comparing apples and oranges here.

So Malak is so powerful, that he gets his ass kicked by a trained warrior without force powers? Wow... 🙄

Numerous times, I have seen Jedi surprised by non-force sensitives. Mandalore - The Ultimate was the most powerful Mandalorian of that time. In addition, we do not see Malak pursuing a battle with him.