Originally posted by Prep-Man
IM would crush Surfer one on one. Just look at what he did in DONG.
Yeah, but he was also The Sources personal Harbinger of the Apocalypse at the time. I can't see regular Infinity Man sparring with the Anti Life Equation like he did. (And Scott destroyed the Source Wall with his full potential, which was previously thought impossible..)
Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, but he was also The Sources personal Harbinger of the Apocalypse at the time. I can't see regular Infinity Man sparring with the Anti Life Equation like he did. (And Scott destroyed the Source Wall with his full potential, which was previously thought impossible..)
kinda agree
Originally posted by cdtmClassic IM was still far superior to the likes of classic Mantis, pre-crisis Superman, and Orion. Plus he has that pesky deus ex machina ability: the infini-beam.
Yeah, but he was also The Sources personal Harbinger of the Apocalypse at the time. I can't see regular Infinity Man sparring with the Anti Life Equation like he did. (And Scott destroyed the Source Wall with his full potential, which was previously thought impossible..)
Generally speaking Infinity Man tends to be about Thanos level, maybe a little lower. He was supposed to be the counter to Darkseid, but of course Darkseid proved capable of taking him out time and time again.
Takion never had a lot of feats, but his series didn't really lend itself to big battles. When he was attacked by anyone conventional, they generally got handled on accident.
Lightray doesn't do great against very physical foes, but he's got raw power feats above those of Red Shift and Firelord, so far as I can tell. He's been pretty thoroughly owned by Kalibak and Orion too, though. He's more of a thinker than a fighter, a strategist to Orion's tactician.
Mr. Miracle has the odd showing of super powers here and there - he's fought Pre Crisis Superman evenly, for instance - but even when he's not getting one of those rare showings I think he could probably keep one of the heralds occupied. His technology makes him pretty formidable, and he's got better combat speed than any of them. Not even Orion could touch him, when it came down to it.
Orion's a match for any of them, and better than most of them. I'd give Orion the edge against classic Surfer, despite his rather abysmal showing in the crossover...I'm still not sure how I feel about Surfer post power up, in part from lack of showings. I know everyone hates to bring it up, but Black Panther DID happen, and comprises a decent percentage of his post power up appearances.
Barda would be a decent match for Nova, I think, but no one else. She's about Wonder Woman level in overall formidability, as I see it. Slightly weaker and less pure martial skill, but more durable and tougher and with an insanely powerful (and versatile) weapon.
It's an interesting enough battle, I'll have think on the outcome. Takion and Infinity Man are above any individual herald, as I see it, but Mr. Miracle and Barda are far below in raw power, and Lightray's lack of durability is going to hurt him...
In the end, heralds take it I think, in a surprisingly good one. Swap in Metron, and the Gods could take it.
Originally posted by Desaad
Generally speaking Infinity Man tends to be about Thanos level, maybe a little lower. He was supposed to be the counter to Darkseid, but of course Darkseid proved capable of taking him out time and time again.Takion never had a lot of feats, but his series didn't really lend itself to big battles. When he was attacked by anyone conventional, they generally got handled on accident.
Lightray doesn't do great against very physical foes, but he's got raw power feats above those of Red Shift and Firelord, so far as I can tell. He's been pretty thoroughly owned by Kalibak and Orion too, though. He's more of a thinker than a fighter, a strategist to Orion's tactician.
Mr. Miracle has the odd showing of super powers here and there - he's fought Pre Crisis Superman evenly, for instance - but even when he's not getting one of those rare showings I think he could probably keep one of the heralds occupied. His technology makes him pretty formidable, and he's got better combat speed than any of them. Not even Orion could touch him, when it came down to it.
Orion's a match for any of them, and better than most of them. I'd give Orion the edge against classic Surfer, despite his rather abysmal showing in the crossover...I'm still not sure how I feel about Surfer post power up, in part from lack of showings. I know everyone hates to bring it up, but Black Panther DID happen, and comprises a decent percentage of his post power up appearances.
Barda would be a decent match for Nova, I think, but no one else. She's about Wonder Woman level in overall formidability, as I see it. Slightly weaker and less pure martial skill, but more durable and tougher and with an insanely powerful (and versatile) weapon.
It's an interesting enough battle, I'll have think on the outcome. Takion and Infinity Man are above any individual herald, as I see it, but Mr. Miracle and Barda are far below in raw power, and Lightray's lack of durability is going to hurt him...
In the end, heralds take it I think, in a surprisingly good one. Swap in Metron, and the Gods could take it.
i think nova will be more than a decent match for bara.
Nova doesn't have many combat feats, though. She's caused a sun to go--wait for it -- Nova, but I can't recall a fight she has actually one, or even someone she's stalemated.
Barda is at a power disadvantage, but is more skilled and tougher, with a weapon that is almost certainly capable of messing her up.
Originally posted by Desaad
Nova doesn't have many combat feats, though. She's caused a sun to go--wait for it -- Nova, but I can't recall a fight she has actually one, or even someone she's stalemated.Barda is at a power disadvantage, but is more skilled and tougher, with a weapon that is almost certainly capable of messing her up.
funny thing is, Nova isn't even included in this match... uahahahaha.
Originally posted by Desaad\
Nova doesn't have many combat feats, though. She's caused a sun to go--wait for it -- Nova, but I can't recall a fight she has actually one, or even someone she's stalemated.Barda is at a power disadvantage, but is more skilled and tougher, with a weapon that is almost certainly capable of messing her up.
So, do you think Nova is a better analogy for Lightray, or Firelord?
The thing about Lightray, is he's pretty much established since the Kirby days as having little combat experience.. Great tactical mind, and very powerful (Claims he can create heat as hot as a couple suns, and he did insta-melt a giant war machine along with casually creating an actual sun or two..), but put him against someone like Kalibak, and he's inevitably get caught and beaten down.
He's pretty good for showing off New Gods durability though. Both Kalibak and Orion being able to shrug off solar level attacks is pretty impressive stuff..
Originally posted by cdtm
[B]\So, do you think Nova is a better analogy for Lightray, or Firelord?
I think he probably works for both, if we're being honest. Firelord doesn't have a great win/loss record either, though he doesn't have many appearances to draw upon.
If I HAD to, though, just based on temperment I'd say Lightray/Nova is a better comparison. Barda/Firelord would probably be the more likely match up, based on both of them being warriors (Firelord was a member of the Nova Corps, after all) and not being really up to snuff with the more top tier guys of their respective groups.
The thing about Lightray, is he's pretty much established since the Kirby days as having little combat experience.. Great tactical mind, and very powerful (Claims he can create heat as hot as a couple suns, and he did insta-melt a giant war machine along with casually creating an actual sun or two..), but put him against someone like Kalibak, and he's inevitably get caught and beaten down.
Right, it's true, he's had his low combat showings. I'd argue, actually, that Lightray is a great STRATEGIST (Orion even refers to him as such in Hunger Dogs), where as Orion is the ultimate tactician. Darkseid tends to be both.
But he's also got his battle feats, like taking it to Takion for a while.
I'm still not sure how I feel about Surfer post power up, in part from lack of showings. I know everyone hates to bring it up, but Black Panther DID happen, and comprises a decent percentage of his post power up appearances.
This is just plain ludicrous. how does one PIS low showing compromise anything? He has had some extremely good feats post power up and to disregard all of them because of a PIS incident doesnt make an iota of sense.
but I can't recall a fight she has actually one, or even someone she's stalemated.
Lobo, for one. DC's Thor, iirc. WW1m. Pre-Crisis, she beat down Supergirl.
Barda is quite a threat. Even those here she'd lose against, she'd only do so after a rough fight that'd give them a fair amount of damage too.
Originally posted by Naija boy
This is just plain ludicrous. how does one PIS low showing compromise anything? He has had some extremely good feats post power up and to disregard all of them because of a PIS incident doesnt make an iota of sense.
I'm not disregarding them all, I'm simply taking the average. "One bad showing" doesn't seem so bad until you take into account the total number of showings he's had in his post Annihilation form. When one does, one realizes it compromises one of his few extended appearances, and has to give it weight.
Or you could just ignore it because you don't like it. But that's not really debating so much as masturbating.