Wolverine Vs. Nightwing & Arsenal

Hrm..

Well, Beyonders reality manipulation abilities were unmatched, but he was also caught off guard by Phoenix when she gave him all these mortal experiences/emotions.. If she can even catch him off guard with something he's not prepared to experience, maybe there's ways to defeat Beyonder and cut him off from being able to perform reality menipulation, or somehow render him unable to use his powers..

The reason I went with the Astral battle, is because that's how Osborn defeated Nate Grey, who may not be even close to the power of Beyonder but is still way, way above someone like him..

In general with comics, there's usually ways around power disadvantages. Take the battle to a plane where a cosmic isn't as cosmic, or cut them with the bone of an old god and bind them (Like happened to a 5d imp), or drain off their powers using exotic items and prep.. (Like Lucifer did with two beings with The Presences powers)

Thanos shouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell against Cosmos, except that she decided to inhabit a mortal form, and he took advantage of that. So maybe trick Pre Retcon Beyonder into doing the same, and render his body comatose?

But for the sake of argument, how could you see Pre Retcon Beyonder being defeated? With infinite prep, items, deus ex mechanicas.. Anything.

Que?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Que?

Subtext and all that.

While yes, Logan would win in h2h, the problem for him is that Roy can, imo, expose Logan's biggest weakness: His lack of range. With his trick arrows (which have been impressive in the past), i can see him hurting Logan. Not sure who'll take the majority, but i think the team is definitely going to take a few wins.

Originally posted by iceman24567
The team wins if they can keep their distance and not die within the first 10 seconds

cosigned.

Here the thing, what are we assuming are Arsenal standard arrows? It not like he consistently is portrayed with arrows or any items for that matter which would be able to take Wolverine out. I think people are assuming he has arrows that are not part of his standard gear. Also Nightwing though has equipment none of which standard items would do anything to Wolverine, but annoy him. He also tends far less it seems then Batman or Tim to uses his equipment, but rather uses his acrobatics, agility, fighting skill, and cali sticks to fight. What also worse for this to is the city land scape favors, Wolverine who is by far the most stealthy, best tracker, only one who posses superhuman senses, which mean he know were they are easily while they won't know were he is. Also though Nightwing has given it to, Death stroke he shown his lack of durability hurts him in such encounters getting taken by very few hits. Now imagine now he fighting individual who physically Death stroke equally except superior stamina, strength and durability (though depends on Death Stroke armor). He also posses vastly great damage soak. Now if Nightwing has enough trouble simply hanging with Deathstroke now he facing individual who death stroke plus, and posses weapons capable of cutting through anything pretty much. The idea that these two can not only land the range items, but ones that are powerful enough and countless of them before Logan gets to them is a stretch to say the least.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think CDTM is calling you a homo. mhmm

Subtext and all that.

Originally posted by Q99
They were brought up by others.

Originally posted by Q99
They fought multiple times. Was it ever a walk-over? Or rather, was it a walk over *every times*? Because that's what is required for the argument I've been opposing.

They fought three times. The only time shingen did well was when wolverine was poisoned and they were supposes to be sparing and shingen was going for killing strike. The next time wolverine had to fight his way in and after a short fight killed him. Then the last fight Wolverine who now an entirely different beast from regaining memories was caught by surprises and cut his eye cut, then he destroyed shingen and kill him.

Originally posted by Q99
Remember, I'm saying Wolverine beats top non-super fighters too, I'm just saying it is a real fight.

Yea which means Wolverine won’t be holding back which makes this much worse for his opponents.

Originally posted by Q99
And DD can fight Elektra on good terms.

Like debating apples and oranges.

Originally posted by Q99
Elektra and Wolverine aren't far apart in stat range. What makes Wolverine able to 'stomp' Matt when Elektra doesn't?

Because of many reason. CIS because she loves him, they were trained by the same guy and Elektra does not posses certain abilities like healing factor which makes it almost impossible for matt to down him.

Originally posted by Q99

Nightwing fights foes just as or more superhuman than Logan on many
occasions. What about Wolverine's slight superhuman stats makes him 'steamroll' when they don't? Why can someone who can hold off Slade for a significant amount of time suddenly insta-lose just because Wolverine has a better healing factor?

Originally posted by Q99

It's silly.

Originally posted by Q99

Quite frankly I call BS.

Originally posted by Q99

He has a thing about his targets needing to beat him twice, and those who beat him twice often are stuck in a sort of living death due to not being able to heal the wounds they took in the process, something Logan didn't have to worry about, but they did win.

Originally posted by Q99

Wolverine's faces foes of all kinds, many a lot stronger and more fearsome. It's hardly likely he's the most skilled when others are skilled enough to win and he's so quickly beaten upon losing his sword.

We don’t even know who these fighters were, what there powers and what age, your using unknown verables as an argument which holds little weight.

He lost his weapon, from a man obviously more skill, what was he gunna do? Not only is he unarmed but his opponent has his weapon (who also happens to be one of the greatest swordsmen alive) just cut Shogun who an absolute beast into pieces and posses six other blades that can cut through almost anything.

Originally posted by Q99
Arsenal dodges it or shoots it down, Arsenal shoots more arrows. He could also open with a sonic arrow or explosive arrow to disorient Wolvie (which doesn't need a hit) before going to glue.

With a bow, he's about Bullseye level in aim.

Explosive arrows are gunna distract a person who walks through explosions, fights while on firer, fights when his arm is burnt to the bone, fights after crashing into the ground in the x-men black bird......but some how explosive arrows are gunna distract him? Are you kidding me? Not only is it a stretch he even have them, but to assume they do anything to Wolverine or distract him is ridiculous stretch.

I highly doubt that.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Here the thing, what are we assuming are Arsenal standard arrows? It not like he consistently is portrayed with arrows or any items for that matter which would be able to take Wolverine out. I think people are assuming he has arrows that are not part of his standard gear. Also Nightwing though has equipment none of which standard items would do anything to Wolverine, but annoy him. He also tends far less it seems then Batman or Tim to uses his equipment, but rather uses his acrobatics, agility, fighting skill, and cali sticks to fight. What also worse for this to is the city land scape favors, Wolverine who is by far the most stealthy, best tracker, only one who posses superhuman senses, which mean he know were they are easily while they won't know were he is. Also though Nightwing has given it to, Death stroke he shown his lack of durability hurts him in such encounters getting taken by very few hits. Now imagine now he fighting individual who physically Death stroke equally except superior stamina, strength and durability (though depends on Death Stroke armor). He also posses vastly great damage soak. Now if Nightwing has enough trouble simply hanging with Deathstroke now he facing individual who death stroke plus, and posses weapons capable of cutting through anything pretty much. The idea that these two can not only land the range items, but ones that are powerful enough and countless of them before Logan gets to them is a stretch to say the least.

any trick arrow he's used in the past/pulled from his quiver can be considered standard equipment.

Originally posted by -Pr-
any trick arrow he's used in the past/pulled from his quiver can be considered standard equipment.

By such logic Logan stand equipment is a sword, magical one to boot, because he certain used it more then I bet Arsenal has used of a number of his trick arrows.

further examples of how that can't be right is Deadpool if we went by such lines of reasoning, he has item ranging from teleporting ring, spray that turn people in midgets I believe it was, bazooka , countless types of guns and explosives, tranq's that have enough sleeping sedatives to put down two T Rexes (if not mistaken)

Punisher has saintin claw, venom suit, ant mans helment whip lashes thing, pumpkin bombs ect.

Oh and Clint Barton runs around with a nuke arrow (believe that was it was), arrows designed to pierce gods ect.

This makes little senses, either your saying all these's characters plus vastly other get any item they have used as standard equipment your holding different standards which be more or less picking an choosing (though I doubt you did it on purposes)

surprisingly, battlehammer actually makes a good point here!

@battlehammer

get um..

YouTube video

anyways deadpool's standard gear without being ridicules and going by the same premise as PR has set up should always be using his technological bio tech sword instead of all his crappy swords he has bn showing in the last half decade..

Deadpool's bio tech sword is actually part of marvel's official marvel bio of the character as part of his equipment.

these swords sure as hell wouldnt be shattering and breaking every ten minutes like his other swords are constantly shown doing they be cutting deep into hercules and the comic fight with them wouldnt have ended with him and herc drinking but herc would have actually died without DP's swords shattering.

Wolverine is not going to stomp them even if he wins.

Originally posted by jocuri
Wolverine is not going to stomp them even if he wins.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
what? thats absurd. That like saying anything that Batman used can be pulled out his but in any forum match? There no way that can be right, that goes against the very rules of standard equipment. It is item that are consistently used. Not simply some item he had at some time.

By such logic Logan stand equipment is a sword, magical one to boot, because he certain used it more then I bet Arsenal has used of a number of his trick arrows.

further examples of how that can't be right is Deadpool if we went by such lines of reasoning, he has item ranging from teleporting ring, spray that turn people in midgets I believe it was, bazooka , countless types of guns and explosives, tranq's that have enough sleeping sedatives to put down two T Rexes (if not mistaken)

Punisher has saintin claw, venom suit, ant mans helment whip lashes thing, pumpkin bombs ect.

Oh and Clint Barton runs around with a nuke arrow (believe that was it was), arrows designed to pierce gods ect.

This makes little senses, either your saying all these's characters plus vastly other get any item they have used as standard equipment your holding different standards which be more or less picking an choosing (though I doubt you did it on purposes)

that isn't what i said. at all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that isn't what i said. at all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
any trick arrow he's used in the past/pulled from his quiver can be considered standard equipment.

Your saying any item he pretty much used is standard, despite the fact he may only used it ones years ago. Standard equipment is what is consistently used by the characters.

Thoses examples I posted are the same thing as your quote except it being applied to everyone.

I dont think you ment to, but either standard equipment what they consistently uses, or it any item they ever uses. It can switch from character to character. It a double standard that way, which I dont think you ment to do, but that pretty much how it came out.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
that is exactly what you said.

Your saying any item he pretty much used is standard, despite the fact he may only used it ones years ago. Standard equipment is what is consistently used by the characters.

Thoses examples I posted are the same thing as your quote except it being applied to everyone.

I dont think you ment to, but either standard equipment what they consistently uses, or it any item they ever uses. It can switch from character to character. It a double standard that way, which I dont think you ment to do, but that pretty much how it came out.

you're missing the point. and no, you used unfair and inaccurate comparisons.

they use trick arrows as standard. so at the very least, they get c4 arrows, gas arrows, ice arrows etc, because those are pretty standard for any of the arrow family.

if i turned around and said they used their phantom zone arrow on him, that would be unfair.

my statement said that you COULD consider it standard equipment. not that you had to.

and btw? most of what batman uses in non-prep situations that he pulls from his belt is considered standard equipment. he's frickin batman.

anti bat-woman spray ftw.