Originally posted by Konton
Shiva dismantled Supergirl. May or may not satisfy your question.
<fan boy mode>That's fantastic.</fan boy mode>
Different than KK noting UB's switch to super speed, than dodging though. Plus, Shiva doesn't really have a history of feats in the range of Amorr's, on just about all levels... (Kicking through force fields, penetrating interitron, leveling tanks, dodging speedsters clearly using their speed.. You name it..)
Originally posted by cdtm
That's fantastic.Different than KK noting UB's switch to super speed, than dodging though. Plus, Shiva doesn't really have a history of feats in the range of Amorr's, on just about all levels... (Kicking through force fields, penetrating interitron, leveling tanks, dodging speedsters clearly using their speed.. You name it..)
I'll note that Shiva's daughter has done the 'hit through forcefield' things, and I'll note those other things don't prevent other martial artists from still giving him a fight on the rare occasion he fights someone *really* good.
And yea, she doesn't have the history of feats, but it's not being argued that she's on Val's level, it's a three-on-one being argued about.
Also, all he did with UB was go along with a *very* obvious, straitforward rush. Black Canary's done similar against Black Alice (when Alice used Marvel-family power or Wonder Woman power), let alone Shiva.
The problem here, is even though Val's never actually killed anyone, his feats are more than enough to go through anyone below Supermans level.
Can any of the three block an attack that can flatten a skyscraper? Even if we gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed Val's speed was on their level, what stops him from just ripping them apart the same way he'd tear apart a tank?
The only way the three win, is with the same kind of PIS that happens in comics.
Originally posted by cdtm
<fan boy mode>That's fantastic.</fan boy mode>Different than KK noting UB's switch to super speed, than dodging though. Plus, Shiva doesn't really have a history of feats in the range of Amorr's, on just about all levels... (Kicking through force fields, penetrating interitron, leveling tanks, dodging speedsters clearly using their speed.. You name it..)
Shiva wrecked a Superman villain (Shadowdragon) with a stick. He was in invisibility mode, has lightspeed feats, and can take Kal's hits.
I think its funny that people can't differentiate between the different versions of Karate Kid, and cite examples from all three while they make their arguments. Classic, 3boot and Countdown/One Year Later Karate Kid, are all different characters. Choose the version you are going to argue in favour for an stick with it, other wise its confusing and messy.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think its funny that people can't differentiate between the different versions of Karate Kid, and cite examples from all three while they make their arguments. Classic, 3boot and Countdown/One Year Later Karate Kid, are all different characters. Choose the version you are going to argue in favour for an stick with it, other wise its confusing and messy.
By feats, all three are in the class 100 brick range, so I don't see it particularly mattering which version...
What it comes down to, is that Val's problems with non meta's doesn't jive with the fact his thing is performing feats comparable to characters that nobody would ever think of arguing would be given trouble.. In the comic book, his punch will be blocked by Batman. In the arena, the feats say Batman should be a bloody pile of goo...
Originally posted by cdtm
By feats, all three are in the class 100 brick range, so I don't see it particularly mattering which version...What it comes down to, is that Val's problems with non meta's doesn't jive with the fact his thing is performing feats comparable to characters that nobody would ever think of arguing would be given trouble.. In the comic book, his punch will be blocked by Batman. In the arena, the feats say Batman should be a bloody pile of goo...
3-Boot Val is basically Karnak-lite, Classic is a monstrous Kryptonian level thread, and One Year Later is some where in the middle.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
3-Boot Val is basically Karnak-lite, Classic is a monstrous Kryptonian level thread, and One Year Later is some where in the middle.
I wouldn't give them much odds against Karnak either. 😛
Although I think 3boot Val has the edge in feats, if only because Ultra Boy is > most Karnak faced.
Also not sure Karnak could do the snow clearing feat. That's power and control you probably wouldn't see from most class 70-100 types.
Originally posted by Q99
All solo fights, I note.Fighting multiple coordinated top-tier martial artists (one with powers and weapons) is tougher than fighting one uber-tier martial artist.
This trio working together would I feel handle any of those fights solidly.
Dangerous criminals, sure, but not so individually skilled martial artists. Beating mobs is a lot different than fighting top tiers.
Also, if we're talking the Reboot KK when that happened, they beat him up the first go, but only when he recovered his focus and was more mentally prepared did he handle them.
Avoid getting killed by the Five and inflict some minor damage, sure. Hardly a *martial arts* fight, though.
Yes, but the amount of EASE he did it to those fighters was something. Considering that Black Tiger is probably leagues better than any of the three in this fight. Black Tiger trained his butt off and dedicated himself to beating Val, yet when they met a second time, Val won, but not so easy.
Elektra and Shiva are threats, but Chesire isn't close to Val skill wise.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think its funny that people can't differentiate between the different versions of Karate Kid, and cite examples from all three while they make their arguments. Classic, 3boot and Countdown/One Year Later Karate Kid, are all different characters. Choose the version you are going to argue in favour for an stick with it, other wise its confusing and messy.
I've labeled all the Val's I want to use. The poster didn't even acknowledge the Val here, so I decided to use any Val I want to.
Originally posted by Konton
Shiva may or may not have just received her yearly mega-upgrade in the new Birds of Prey. The White Canary has appeared and addressed Dinah as Suis Jerk Jai, so it's likely Shiva.
PR and I were talking about this, but the solits say it's a new villain. I have a theory on who it is, though.
If it is Shiva, she looks bad ass and could probably give Elektra a run for her money.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yes, but the amount of EASE he did it to those fighters was something. Considering that Black Tiger is probably leagues better than any of the three in this fight. Black Tiger trained his butt off and dedicated himself to beating Val, yet when they met a second time, Val won, but not so easy.Elektra and Shiva are threats, but Chesire isn't close to Val skill wise.
Right, Black Tiger draws on the same pool of martial arts as KK, so even if he gave Val trouble it's not really a black mark against him.
Seriously, if we were talking about Savage Hulk or Luke Cage vs these three, would anyone argue they could win? Because that's the kind of opponent they're facing...
Basically, Val Amorr is a ringer. He's supposed to have no powers, yet performs feats associated with high level bricks.
