Originally posted by quanchi112
Humor me I am new here. If it gets up close and personal do you feel Kain can still defeat him?
Not really but its never going to get close and personal. Kratos is stronger and has faster combos sure but Kain has such a huge list of powers from time distortion, soul raping, blood manipulation and Tk that he could mess Kratos up. Kratos will never reach Kain as even if for some reason Kain gets lazy and Kratos gets within a few meters, teleport/mistform can allow him to clear the gap.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtYou seem to be focusing on powerset arguments whereas Kratos goes toe to toe with gods and titans the size of mountains. I think this fight definitely gets up close and personal as all of Kain's battles do in the video games.
Not really but its never going to get close and personal. Kratos is stronger and has faster combos sure but Kain has such a huge list of powers from time distortion, soul raping, blood manipulation and Tk that he could mess Kratos up. Kratos will never reach Kain as even if for some reason Kain gets lazy and Kratos gets within a few meters, teleport/mistform can allow him to clear the gap.
Size is irrelevant. Kratos beats Gods and Titans because he uses their size against them, take Cronos and Atlas, he fights both on them and within them and often without them being able to reach him.
Kain getting in close combat with Kratos would have to be forced PIS, Kain cant beat Kratos hand to hand unless he uses time distortion to make Kratos slow so he can fight with impunity.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtHow is it pis when he fights that way in virtually every battle he has?
Size is irrelevant. Kratos beats Gods and Titans because he uses their size against them, take Cronos and Atlas, he fights both on them and within them and often without them being able to reach him.Kain getting in close combat with Kratos would have to be forced PIS, Kain cant beat Kratos hand to hand unless he uses time distortion to make Kratos slow so he can fight with impunity.
What fights did Kain use time distortion to gain the advantage?
Originally posted by quanchi112
How is it pis when he fights that way in virtually every battle he has?What fights did Kain use time distortion to gain the advantage?
In canon Kain does not use powers to gain an advantage. Infact hes probably used TK once to beat Moebius but then technically.
I am talking based on powers and an all out fight, if were using character personality then I am not sure. Kains not a melee fighter, after becoming an Elder (ancient vampire) like he is in Soul reaver he fights with energy in Soul reaver 1. He only uses Melee in Defiance against Raziel because hes not trying to harm him.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtYes, that's why you can't use it here because it's how these guys typically throw down not some kind of powerset advantage to steer it in the direction of whichever character you favor.
In canon Kain does not use powers to gain an advantage. Infact hes probably used TK once to beat Moebius but then technically.I am talking based on powers and an all out fight, if were using character personality then I am not sure. Kains not a melee fighter, after becoming an Elder (ancient vampire) like he is in Soul reaver he fights with energy in Soul reaver 1. He only uses Melee in Defiance against Raziel because hes not trying to harm him.
Kain's up close and personal basically in every fight he's ever been in so he will engage Kratos. Both characters would be fearless here and dive into each other.
I always argue based off of powers and how they typically fight.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, that's why you can't use it here because it's how these guys typically throw down not some kind of powerset advantage to steer it in the direction of whichever character you favor.Kain's up close and personal basically in every fight he's ever been in so he will engage Kratos. Both characters would be fearless here and dive into each other.
I always argue based off of powers and how they typically fight.
Thats often how arguments go around here, power set vs power set on blood lust.
I disagree, Kain as he is in current form is a agressive but calculating character. Hes not like Kratos who would just run in and attack with what weapons he has at hand. In Blood omen 1/2 perhaps, the guy does move in with a sword in melee but he becomes wise and ancient by the end of the series. Hes hardly going to just "jump" in. In Soul reaver 1 he uses TK and energy bolts solely if I remember correctly. In defiance he uses Tk against moebius, thats his only cinemati non player controlled fight iirc.
I take both characters, evaluate their strengths and weaknesses and attempt to determine a winner based on how each character would use their greatest strengths against the others weaknesses. That way you dont get characters like Kain attacking a faster or stronger opponent in melee when he has a dozen powers that can negate all their advantages.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtHe uses tk because of Moebius' staff which can negate Kain due to the heart of darkness. That's the only reason he used that tactic on Moebius because he had to.
Thats often how arguments go around here, power set vs power set on blood lust.I disagree, Kain as he is in current form is a agressive but calculating character. Hes not like Kratos who would just run in and attack with what weapons he has at hand. In Blood omen 1/2 perhaps, the guy does move in with a sword in melee but he becomes wise and ancient by the end of the series. Hes hardly going to just "jump" in. In Soul reaver 1 he uses TK and energy bolts solely if I remember correctly. In defiance he uses Tk against moebius, thats his only cinemati non player controlled fight iirc.
I take both characters, evaluate their strengths and weaknesses and attempt to determine a winner based on how each character would use their greatest strengths against the others weaknesses. That way you dont get characters like Kain attacking a faster or stronger opponent in melee when he has a dozen powers that can negate all their advantages.
If you argue based on pure powerset and ignore the characters then it isn't Kain winning it's Kain's powers defeating Kratos' powers. you are taking the character out and leaving just a powerset behind.
Kain would use his speed against him and trade blows in that manner in a sword clash. Kain went right up to the elder god right out of the gate despite his power and started lopping off tendrils. I don't see him backing off for an instant from close combat.
Originally posted by BloodRainHe has speed on his side and is an excellent swordsman.
'Cause he'll know is isnt wining with his raw strength alone and will play it smart.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He uses tk because of Moebius' staff which can negate Kain due to the heart of darkness. That's the only reason he used that tactic on Moebius because he had to.If you argue based on pure powerset and ignore the characters then it isn't Kain winning it's Kain's powers defeating Kratos' powers. you are taking the character out and leaving just a powerset behind.
Kain would use his speed against him and trade blows in that manner in a sword clash. Kain went right up to the elder god right out of the gate despite his power and started lopping off tendrils. I don't see him backing off for an instant from close combat.
He has speed on his side and is an excellent swordsman.
Yes and he is going to have to use spells and distance to beat Kratos. Kains going to be a hard foe to pierce and hit because his vampire reflexes>Kratos but Kratos one slash would splatter Kain since Kratos can stop Titans.
If were using characters then its a wise and manipulative Kain who does teleport, use magic blasts and TK in combat VS an angry and bloodlusted Spartan who will just run at Kain with what hes got. Kratosn ever uses his magic or arrows in the cinematics iirc, at least not against major foes.
He knew the Elder God was fearful and he had the right weapon for the job, the reaver. Not sure its quite the same in this situation since Kain could never cross a sword with Kratos and win.