Rematch!: Yoda vs Sidious

Instead of the Senate, the fight takes place in the Jedi Temple. Who wins?

Isn't the Jedi Temple a light side Force nexus?

Nexus's are overrated. And I pick Yoda. he disarmed sidious, as did Mace. In a fight where either one of them had kept their lightsabers, they would have killed him.

Right...and there aren't any senate pods to throw at him at the Temple, although there are pillars and stuff.

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Star Wars: The Essential Atlas

How many sources need to say that Sidious is downright more powerful than Yoda before people absorb it? Furthermore, Palpatine was only shown being disarmed in the comic, correct? Given the nature of all the conflicting sources behind this duel--and the fact that this event was not shown in the films--this assertion is tenuous at best.

Oh, and their light side Force nexus certainly didn't help them survive the 501st assault on the Jedi Temple.

those sources are only talking about the fight we already watched(thus the narrative quality they possess). Yoda was unable to overcome Sidious's powers because of the terrain, that's pretty obvious. and Jr. Novelization is still canon.

Had Yoda kept his lightsaber, "continuing to confront sidious" would have ended in victory. Without it, yes, he decided to run away.

Those source-books don't really add anythign to what we saw onscreen.

Originally posted by Elok Quintly
How many sources need to say that Sidious is downright more powerful than Yoda before people absorb it? Furthermore, Palpatine was only shown being disarmed in the comic, correct? Given the nature of all the conflicting sources behind this duel--and the fact that this event was not shown in the films--this assertion is tenuous at best.

This is great.

So some second hand interpretations of the events do suddenly overwrite the movie itself and the G-canon RotS Script? Because, you see, the latter not only claims that Yoda disarmed Sidious (with Sidious clearly having no lightsaber left in the movie) and it also descripes their final force contest with the words "it looked as if the Sith Lord was doomed", which doesn't sound like "well...Sidious was too powerful for Yoda".

During the events of ROTS I have always viewed the two as equals. However, there is a LS nexus at the temple and its enough to net Yoda the win.

Eh? Those sources directly say that Sidious was too powerful to defeat, that Yoda couldn't withstand his power and that if he continued to fight he would have lost. They were both without their lightsabers, it was pure power vs power, and Sidious would have won. I'd say that shows that Sidious>Yoda, at least as far as power is concerned.

Him being disarmed does mean that Yoda is likely superior in lightsaber combat though. And Borbarad, 'looking like he was doomed' doesn't mean he is doomed, which the sources above show was actually what Yoda was.

edit: Is the nexus just in the temple? Becuase if so its not likely to be very powerful. Nexus' commonly stretch across entire planets. One dinky temple's worth isn't much.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh? Those sources directly say that Sidious was too powerful to defeat, that Yoda couldn't withstand his power and that if he continued to fight he would have lost.

This adds nothing to the movie, and Yoda even says as much. Part of sidious's power is his army of clone troopers. As a Galatic Empourer, that's pretty obvious. Yes, if Yoda had stayed, he would have been killed. He kinda just fell off of a senate pod for a few hundred feet or whatever, thanks to a terrain advantage

Unless you want to say that Sidious and Yoda' confrontation with lightning on the pod was PIS? then we can go back at it.

It specifically says that he couldn't withstand 'the Emperors Sith powers' though. Not clone powers.

Right, because he just fell hundreds of feet and didn't have his lightsaber. That's pretty obvious,and its what i've been saying from the start. Yoda's greatest strength was his saber skills, once he lost it, he was done.

There are elements in various Star Wars screenplays that are cut from the final films and do not end up as canon. A good example of this would be the death of Shaak Ti in the Jedi Temple.

144 INT. CORUSCANT-JEDI TEMPLE-NIGHT ANAKIN walks through the Jedi Temple, where he finds and kills SHAAK TI. He exits Shaak Ti's room and enters a hallway, where the battle is taking place.

Given that Palpatine's disarmament is referenced in material that is contradicted by several concurrent G-canon sources--and the fact that it does not appear in the film--its level of canonicity is ambiguous.

Right, because he just fell hundreds of feet and didn't have his lightsaber.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh? Those sources directly say that Sidious was too powerful to defeat, that Yoda couldn't withstand his power and that if he continued to fight he would have lost. They were both without their lightsabers, it was pure power vs power, and Sidious would have won. I'd say that shows that Sidious>Yoda, at least as far as power is concerned.

Right.
This is still contraticting what the movie does show. In their final force contest, Sidious is being forced to lean backwards once Yoda was catching and redirecting his lightning. He would have lost that little contest if the energy between them hadn't exploded and sent Yoda down to the bottom of the chamber.

From there, he couldn't go on fighting - of course. On equal ground, he would still whoop Sidious ass in both lightsaber and force contests.

Him being disarmed does mean that Yoda is likely superior in lightsaber combat though. And Borbarad, 'looking like he was doomed' doesn't mean he is doomed, which the sources above show was actually what Yoda was.

Really? I clearly saw the terror on Sidious face in their final confrontation - not in Yoda's. As a matter of fact, Sidious had the luck of weighing more than Yoda and having that nice grip on his side of the pod. Otherwise he would have falled down just like the Jedi Master.

edit: Is the nexus just in the temple? Becuase if so its not likely to be very powerful. Nexus' commonly stretch across entire planets. One dinky temple's worth isn't much.

It's in the central mountain that serves as fundament for the temple. And where did you get the idea from that such a nexus "commonly" stretches across an entire planet, huh? Remember the lake on Ambria? The tree on Dagobah? Vader's fortress?

Borbarad, you do realize that facial expressions ultimately don't prove anything right? Especially given that the sentiment of Palpatine being too powerful for Yoda to handle is echoed throughout official sources that surely would bend to the whims of Lucas if there were a major contradiction.

Elok Quintly
There are elements in various Star Wars screenplays that are cut from the final films and do not end up as canon. A good example of this would be the death of Shaak Ti in the Jedi Temple.

True, and when one examines the screenplay, one notices a particular problem:

Revenge of the Sith script
203 INT. CORUSCANT-SENATE CHAMRER-MAIN ARENA-NIGHT

YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.

YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.

YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.

...If the script is entirely incontrovertible, then apparently Yoda disarms the Emperor, is in the process of killing him with redirected Force lightning, vows to destroy him, and then... relents?

the same thing happens as it did in ROTS

BS
the same thing happens as it did in ROTS

Yoda falls off a Senate pod?

EQ
you do realize that facial expressions ultimately don't prove anything right?

Correct, especially when the movie also depicts Yoda in considerable pain and Palpatine's cackling just prior to his expression of fear.

EQ
Especially given that the sentiment of Palpatine being too powerful for Yoda to handle is echoed throughout official sources that surely would bend to the whims of Lucas if there were a major contradiction.

In addition to the quotes from the Atlas and the Encyclopedia (which is identical to the statement in Yoda's entry in the official databank), you have a similar line from the Ultimate Visual Guide that says "Palpatine attacks Yoda with both his lightsaber and Sith lightning, who is ultimately forced to retreat" and the New Essential Chronology that says "Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith in history."

But none of those things say ANYTHING more than what we see onscreen. And what we see onscreen looks an awful lot like a stale-mate.

Saying Yoda was ultimately forced to retreat doesn't add to or detract from the film in anyway, meaning we are left with THE FILM to make our decision.

I'm not endorsing the idea that the Emperor was more powerful than Yoda; I'm offering sources that indicate Palpatine was, at the very least, Yoda's equal -- none of the supplement sources, other than a dubious script, suggest he was weaker.