Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No, I was just wondering why you were rolling your eyes.
I was just admiring Gideon's sarcasm. I'm always delighted with people attempting to poke fun at things they don't [mind to] understand. On the other handside the possibility to read some more ingenious comments from Hewhoknowsall keeps me on the edge of my seat.
Gosh. I need to take some Valium right now. I can't stand that much excitement.
Originally posted by Borbarad
I was just admiring Gideon's sarcasm. I'm always delighted with people attempting to poke fun at things they don't [mind to] understand. On the other handside the possibility to read some more ingenious comments from Hewhoknowsall keeps me on the edge of my seat.Gosh. I need to take some Valium right now. I can't stand that much excitement.
Would you mind expanding on what you're talking about?
Originally posted by Borbarad
On the other handside the possibility to read some more ingenious comments from Hewhoknowsall keeps me on the edge of my seat.
This is coming from you, the same person that in our PMs said that quotes don't matter only to use them as your main argument that Ragnos > (???) DE Sidious, that speculation doesn't matter and then to speculate as to how much knowledge and power Ragnos had, and that feats don't matter only to use Ragno's "feat" of defeating Simus as evidence that he could somehow beat Sidious?
Oh, and to say that it doesn't matter HOW Sadow beat those beast riders only that he did, and then you dismiss the Sidious destroying a fleet feat by talking about how he did it and saying that he can't control the Force storm?
Originally posted by Letum LettowIt's no fair to discount them, but that doesn't mean they can suddenly be measured. Nothing these Unknowns have done is quantifiable. Though I think it's a safe bet that Ragnos, due to his longevity, both in life and death, and his position as undisputed ruler of the ultimate organization of betrayers and usurpers, would be victorious against Bandon, an otherwise (and comparably) insignificant player in the grand scheme of Force-users.
And thus we agree that, taken to its logical extreme, simply discounting people because of no direct feats is rather stupid.
Originally posted by Lord LucienExactly.
It's no fair to discount them, but that doesn't mean they can suddenly be measured. Nothing these Unknowns have done is quantifiable. Though I think it's a safe bet that Ragnos, due to his longevity, both in life and death, and his position as undisputed ruler of the ultimate organization of betrayers and usurpers, would be victorious against Bandon, an otherwise (and comparably) insignificant player in the grand scheme of Force-users.
Of course, this goes along with considering everything Kreia said a lie too. Habitual liar she may be, but that was only to lead and trick the exile. Her knowledge is likely to be on the rather extremely encompassing side and she had a vested interest in the Exiles education.
IE We can't know what Tulak Hord was like for example, but it's likely that the lightsaber he was referred to have mastered is more akin to a force energize blade that could deflect baster bolts and whatnot, pre-classic lightsaber, so to speak. What we can infer is that he was a master swordsman at the very least. He might not be a match for ROTS Obi Wan, but he likely could have stood against Maul or dooku and done farely well, regardless of whether he would have survived.
It's also likely that while Palpatine was the most powerful sith of Bane's order and that the Prequel Jedi were the Prime of the post-Ruusan Jedi, you can't honestly tell me with a straightface(**** Lucas on this, Ashoka and the stupidity that is the Clone Wars CGI toon proves he has lost his damn mind. Greivous and the rest of ROTS shoul dahve been handled by Tartovsky, but nervermind...) that Palpatine is the most uber all-knowing Sith lord Evah and that the Jedi of Obi-wan era wouldn't have ended up with their asses royally handed to them by Old Sith Wars Era Jedi or even the army of Light. Sure, Yoda had a ****ton of potential and was described as the most daunting foe against the darkness, but who was doing the describing here? When was the last time that Yoda's order had to not only defend itself but it's core beliefs as well? You can see it's massive failing in the movies, while honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Vrook had picked up on Palpatine a shit-ton sooner(And gotten killed if he jumped the gun) . Not only this, but the Jedi seem to actively encourage holding back. While this might makes senseint the context of not wanting to blare your prescence to half the force sensitive galaxy, its pointless when the enemy already knows where your at.
As far as Palaptine goes, I am willing to accept him being the Greatest of All Time simply for the fact he managed what only the Malachor Triumvirate came close to doing, exterminating and incapacitating the Jedi order. However, any claims about him being all-knowing or knwoing all the techniques are just bad writing and incredulously stupid, if not outright utterly impossible. I wouldn't underestimate his power, but come-n, All knowing? It's just stupid.
and thus ends my rant.
Tulak Hord would have used an actual lightsaber. Karness Muur used one. Wookiee even says that the ancient Sith Empire was responsible for bringing the lightsaber technology to the Republic.
And Palpatine, especially circa DE, takes the credit as the most powerful, and the most knowledgeable Sith Lord. He may not be able to send a star supernova ala Sadow, but the guy had a galaxy under his rule for 23 years. The guy's a fountain of info. And power.
Originally posted by truejediCertain smartasses like insinuating that he knew and knows every technique ever freaking ever.
who ever said he was all-knowing?
It's just stupid and pointless. Especially when some Sith Libraries were said to get so huge that you could never find what you were looking for and had a large chance of starving to death trying to find your way out.
Plus, even if he did know some LS techniques, apparently the little technique he uses to transport his soul makes him cutoff from all but the darkside.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Tulak Hord would have used an actual lightsaber. Karness Muur used one. Wookiee even says that the ancient Sith Empire was responsible for bringing the lightsaber technology to the Republic.And Palpatine, especially circa DE, takes the credit as the most powerful, and the most knowledgeable Sith Lord. He may not be able to send a star supernova ala Sadow, but the guy had a galaxy under his rule for 23 years. The guy's a fountain of info. And power.
Oh I'm not foolish enough to deny that Palpatine is a veritable walking library, and used(The shit that was more or less safe, he ain't another Nihilus or Sion now is he?) quite a bit of what had practical application. However, it is ironicaly that one area, practical application,that the Ancient Sith have everyone beat. The Nova thing was a tech thing, but it does reveal that while they may not have been uberrificly powerful, they were intimately familiar with the force and the darkside enough to create large scale and small scale technology and beast with it. They were very crafty with the Magitech manufacturing.
Now most knowledgable maybe, but it inevitable that a bunch of shit has been lost, to the point the the Old Orders could have quite easily had several orders of magnitude more info to draw upon.
Most Powerful? Militarily and Politically, its a no contest. Pure un assisted personal strength? Not necessarily a no contest but I wouldn't doubt old Palp's for a second.
But that's the Catch. Unassisted. We barely know what other crazy ass shit the Ancient Sith had. It could very well be that Raknos was pwing rebeliions and vaporizing traitors with some nifty invention involving some alchemy and daily infusion of power without ever having to leave Korriban or Ziost. Or not. Who the **** knows what those crazy bastards had.
And, um, no, the Jedi and Fallen Jedi of the 2nd Great Schism were still using swords and as tulak is confirmed(Somewhere)to have lived during the Hundred Years of Darkness, that would mean he wielded something noticably different than what we saw in the films. No, the Republic and the Jedi brought the lightsaber to them. Someone needs to clean that article up.
Originally posted by Letum LettowIE We can't know what Tulak Hord was like for example, but it's likely that the lightsaber he was referred to have mastered is more akin to a force energize blade that could deflect baster bolts and whatnot, pre-classic lightsaber, so to speak. What we can infer is that he was a master swordsman at the very least. He might not be a match for ROTS Obi Wan, but he likely could have stood against Maul or dooku and done farely well, regardless of whether he would have survived.
Proof of that? Any? At all? Or Pure Speculation?
It's also likely that while Palpatine was the most powerful sith of Bane's order
Of all time, actually, is how the quote goes.
and that the Prequel Jedi were the Prime of the post-Ruusan Jedi
Actually the term , Golden Age of the Jedi comes with no such Post-Russan Qualification.
, you can't honestly tell me with a straightface that Palpatine is the most uber all-knowing Sith lord Evah and that the Jedi of Obi-wan era wouldn't have ended up with their asses royally handed to them by Old Sith Wars Era Jedi or even the army of Light.
Yes, Yes we can, because it simply IS. You are operating with pure speculation on the relative level of power of your precious Old sith and the army of light, however:
We happen to know Yoda was the most powerful Jedi of all time, and Mace was right on his heels, and that Sidious was the most powerful Sith of all time.
The chosen one was alive, and bested by Kenobi, who was beaten by Dooku. All these branch off of irrevocable "most powerful of all time" statements about the leaders: Accolades no one from the ancient Sith or Jedi HAVE. Even if they had the accolades of being the most powerful of all time(which they don't) at that time, that is thousands of years before it is said about Sidious and Yoda, making it MORE relevant for the latter than the former.
Sure, Yoda had a ****ton of potential and was described as the most daunting foe against the darkness, but who was doing the describing here?
, while honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Vrook had picked up on Palpatine a shit-ton sooner(And gotten killed if he jumped the gun)
. Not only this, but the Jedi seem to actively encourage holding back. While this might makes senseint the context of not wanting to blare your prescence to half the force sensitive galaxy, its pointless when the enemy already knows where your at.
As far as Palaptine goes, I am willing to accept him being the Greatest of All Time simply for the fact he managed what only the Malachor Triumvirate came close to doing, exterminating and incapacitating the Jedi order. However, any claims about him being all-knowing or knwoing all the techniques are just bad writing and incredulously stupid, if not outright utterly impossible. I wouldn't underestimate his power, but come-n, All knowing? It's just stupid.
. Right here, in the nicely bolded portion. Whether you like it or not, it doesn't change canon. Call it bad writing, call it stupid, there are plenty of different things in star wars that we all feel are that way, but they are different things. For every person like you who say that its obvious the ancient sith were stronger, there is an equally fervent person who disagrees. All we can do to decide is use, not our own opinions, but the text, which clearly indicates, EVERYWHERE, that your whole rant is pointless and wrong.
Are you simply DISCOUNTING the sources that refer to Sidious as the most powerful Sith? Or the Source calling Yoda "the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known?" You cite them, and then add a "Yeah, but..." There is no: "Yeah But." They are simply canon. You not liking them doesn't change that.
If you are going to sit here and say that your opinion trumps canon, you are wasting your time.