Originally posted by quanchi112You're not grasping the concept that Negan gained(and retains) numbers that vast BECAUSE of his leadership prowess. If he wasn't able to keep his people in line(and loyalish) he would have been overthrown long ago. Conversely, The Governor purposefully killed several of his own people during the multiple tantrums he threw... For no particular reason(and that's not counting the complete psychological breakdown he had after Woodbury fell.) So again: Negan is undoubtedly a better leader all around, and certainly knows how to bend other people/communities to his will better than the Guv could have ever hoped to. The Guv seemed like a good leader at first, but ended up being a total mess in that regard.
I always said Governor would beat his ass. I think they are different leaders but I favor the Governor since we see him do it to two separate grip ups of people. Negan just grew numbers and that's why he steamrolled ricks crew. They had Rick beaten without Negan even being directly involved.Negan has done nothing thus far to show he's a badass. You can blush when Negan says annoying cocky things to a guy worried about being vulnerable to much bigger numbers and people dying. Posters Act like omg that's so cool and trendy. It isn't and Rick can't say shit because people will die. He isn't afraid of Negan he's afraid of the position his group is in. Reality check. Negan is deluding himself. He wouldn't do shit to the Governor if the two were in a room. Governor would skull **** him and then toss his ahitty little bat aside after doing so.
#brucecampbellripoffislame
Can't yet speak as to how Negan's h2h skills will be portrayed in the show, but I can certainly agree that the Guv could beat the crap out of the best of them(sans Jesus, I'm sure)... But I've never argued otherwise, either.
Unlike yourself, even if I don't care for a particular character, I don't have a problem being objective and mentioning their high-points as well. Desperately attempting to low-ball/nitpick characters just because they aren't my 'pet' isn't my cup of tea. 👆
...Unless said character(s) simply does not have ANY redeeming qualities to speak of *cough*Lori and Andrea*cough*
Originally posted by Galan007
You're not grasping the concept that Negan gained(and retains) numbers that vast BECAUSE of his leadership prowess. If he wasn't able to keep his people in line(and loyalish) he would have been overthrown long ago. Conversely, The Governor purposefully killed several of his own people during the multiple tantrums he threw... For no particular reason(and that's not counting the complete psychological breakdown he had after Woodbury fell.) So again: Negan is undoubtedly a better leader all around, and certainly knows how to bend other people/communities to his will better than the Guv could have ever hoped to. The Guv seemed like a good leader at first, but ended up being a total mess in that regard.
Yep. There's a reason he has that level of Power which the Governor never had. But all Quanchi will keep harping on about "Battlezone Negan vs Governor 1 v 1!!!"
Originally posted by Galan007
Can't yet speak as to how Negan's h2h skills will be portrayed in the show, but I can certainly agree that the Guv could beat the crap out of the best of them(sans Jesus, I'm sure)... But I've never argued otherwise, either.
Where is Jesus btw? I can't remember the last time we saw him.
Negan obviously has another factor to his rule. You can't rule over people through fear alone, so I'm hoping that the character gets fleshed out more, like we saw with the Governor. There just has to be something we haven't seen yet or that many people around him somebody would've taken him out years ago.
Originally posted by samhain
Negan obviously has another factor to his rule. You can't rule over people through fear alone, so I'm hoping that the character gets fleshed out more, like we saw with the Governor. There just has to be something we haven't seen yet or that many people around him somebody would've taken him out years ago.
I'm guessing he at least offers "protection" to the communities that follow his rule.
Originally posted by Galan007And what you aren't grasping is that's your opinion. The Governor wasn't overthrown in either case. Governor will kill you for less than Negan will that's for sure. Negan will kill one person if you slaughter his camps. That's weak IMO. Iyo not mine since they encountered different variables at different points in time. Governor was a force and we actually see him rise through the ranks and execute the other group leader and have the charisma for the perished leaders brother to follow him. That's amazing. He didn't have to blare music for days either which still has not worked. Governor was not able to be reasoned with while Negan is. He sees the way Rick is looking at him and yet he doesn't do a damn thing. He even let Carl pull a gun on his crew. You can get away with a lot of shenanigans including slaughtering his own people.
You're not grasping the concept that Negan gained(and retains) numbers that vast BECAUSE of his leadership prowess. If he wasn't able to keep his people in line(and loyalish) he would have been overthrown long ago. Conversely, The Governor purposefully killed several of his own people during the multiple tantrums he threw... For no particular reason(and that's not counting the complete psychological breakdown he had after Woodbury fell.) So again: Negan is undoubtedly a better leader all around, and certainly knows how to bend other people/communities to his will better than the Guv could have ever hoped to. The Guv seemed like a good leader at first, but ended up being a total mess in that regard.
So currently you can't speak so don't offer me a comics answer. Be objective and admit at this point in time with what we've seen the Governor would kill him in a one on one fight. Admit it and prove your objectivity. I'm always objective just loud and obnoxious and unwilling to drop my points of contention.
Can't yet speak as to how Negan's h2h skills will be portrayed in the show, but I can certainly agree that the Guv could beat the crap out of the best of them(sans Jesus, I'm sure)... But I've never argued otherwise, either.Unlike yourself, even if I don't care for a particular character, I don't have a problem being objective and mentioning their high-points as well. Desperately attempting to low-ball/nitpick characters just because they aren't my 'pet' isn't my cup of tea. 👆
...Unless said character(s) simply does not have ANY redeeming qualities to speak of *cough*Lori and Andrea*cough* [/B]
Ps. There aren't low or high points just facts. Once you let go of what you deem high or low only then will you come closer to true objectivity.
Originally posted by Galan007
I like how quanchi has now stopped pretending that the Governor is a better leader than Negan, and switched goalposts to "O ya!? Well teh Guvnah wud toatly beet Negan up!!!1111!!!1!!"Lol.
Lol indeed. Basing your like of a character on just "can beat up" is, well, all so base :0
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
This missing factor here is Rick... He met the governer, the governer eventually died.
He's just now met neegan, neegan will fallIf Rick met them vice versa. Neegan would be long gone and the governer would have the massive army.
Obviously Negan will fall at some point, but the how long until and how, we'll see. I'd be surprised if he goes out like a chump, the way the Gov did.
Even 1v1, I see Negan having the physical advantage. He's a big guy first and foremost. He didn't even have to fistfight Rick. He just dragged him across the ground with one hand. Add Lucielle on top of that and it's a stomp, no matter what melee weapon the Governor has. Not sure whose better at firearms though.
Maybe one of us should just make a separate vs thread for this shit.
I won't comment in general, but I just found the last episode in particular a bit cringe-y, and hard to believe. They were in the best position ever to not only kill Negan, but a big chunk of his crew, but chose to just bend over backwards like a bunch of lemmings. Negan didn't have anywhere near the men he had when he made his "introduction". Rick had way more people, all their weapons, walls, and could have used the element of surprise when Negan was standing behind the tarp like a sitting duck, when he came "knocking". There might have been casualties, but at least they had a shot to do significant damage. The direction they did go (giving up all their guns) makes things a lot more difficult. It's like that bit on The Flash, where Barry gives up his speed to Zoom, after they had Zoom at a disadvantage, and after Wally was no longer in danger. I know it is for the sake of the overall plot, but it was f****** stupid to me, and made Rick and his crew look like useless morons.
Originally posted by 0mega SpawnTo be fair, it is competing with the events leading up to, during, and after the election. Lets see the rest of the season before we start slamming the show.
Damn neegan has ratings dropping... Seems alot of people simply can't believe such an ******* could gain so many followers. Like I've said before lol.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He isn't compelling, badass, or exciting. What he is however is annoying, unbelievable, and flat as a character.
When they were in front of the gates someone could have gone down and gotten the rocket launcher and put a large dent in the crew off the rip while others opened up, mowed down Negan and anyone else who couldn't get to cover in time, then laid waste to a few others before any real retreat could be made. Rick & Co--minus Rick now because of the baby--are not a survive at any cost kind of crew. They would have fought and likely could have won the day with Negan dead. His second in command does not seem the type to draw out a war with them, nor do any of his underlings seem capable of anything other than fighting among themselves if Negan gets killed.
I enjoyed getting caught up on an episode of FTWD more than I did TWD, and I never would have expected that. They need to bring this to a head and quickly. Heck, I'd love it if Michone went to take matters into her own hands and she found their entire main compound eerily quiet. She goes in and finds that Daryl has poisoned their water or some such. I don't care how they do it, this just needs to be over.
Lastly, it's getting old that the plot is literally "What new group will our heroes face off against this season?" Mix it up, please...