Cross-Genre Match #1: Vegeta vs Thor

Originally posted by carver9
And again, the only way to discredit nappa being a low herald or possibly higher is by ignoring his feats. Nappa could take over earth and do it at a better fashion thaaan, Wonder Woman or Black Adam, or even Captain Marvel. He has the feats proving this and again, Raditz was declared as being a planetary level threat and I cant picture any meta being a planetary level threat.

Physically, I don't see DBZ characters outclassing the strongest/most powerful of the High Heralds. There's no direct correlation between power level and physical stats besides vague conjecture and heavy guess work. How much of a Power Level of say, 9000, attribute to speed, durability, strength, etc? How much of a PL contributes to energy projection, etc? It's a slippery slope. Would someone of a Power Level of 12,000 be exactly twice as strong as someone with a Power Level of 6,000? Twice as fast? If we follow this line of thought, that means people in the later sagas of DBZ are moving billions of times the speed of light, and I've not seen anything to suggest them moving that fast. If it requires only a paltry PL in the hundreds to destroy a planetary body, then energy attacks by the villains (who would have had no reason to hold back), would be unleashing universe destroying blasts at the end of DBZ. And even toward the end, planet busting energy attacks were still hyped up exponentially. Frieza easily destroyed Planet Vegeta. And when he was vastly more powerful in his transformed state, took much more time taking the energy required to blow up Namek? He was beat up, yeah, but to the point where destroying that planet would have been more difficult to achieve than his weakest form?

It's a huge mess when you think of it and supported by guessing, feat projection, assumption, and nothing even close to a quantifiable system outside of Power Levels, which are even discarded by the characters and Toriyama himself.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Physically, I don't see DBZ characters outclassing the strongest/most powerful of the High Heralds. There's no direct correlation between power level and physical stats besides vague conjecture and heavy guess work. How much of a Power Level of say, 9000, attribute to speed, durability, strength, etc? How much of a PL contributes to energy projection, etc? It's a slippery slope. Would someone of a Power Level of 12,000 be exactly twice as strong as someone with a Power Level of 6,000? Twice as fast? If we follow this line of thought, that means people in the later sagas of DBZ are moving billions of times the speed of light, and I've not seen anything to suggest them moving that fast. If it requires only a paltry PL in the hundreds to destroy a planetary body, then energy attacks by the villains (who would have had no reason to hold back), would be unleashing universe destroying blasts at the end of DBZ. And even toward the end, planet busting energy attacks were still hyped up exponentially. Frieza easily destroyed Planet Vegeta. And when he was vastly more powerful in his transformed state, took much more time taking the energy required to blow up Namek? He was beat up, yeah, but to the point where destroying that planet would have been more difficult to achieve than his weakest form?

It's a huge mess when you think of it and supported by guessing, feat projection, assumption, and nothing even close to a quantifiable system outside of Power Levels, which are even discarded by the characters and Toriyama himself.

Most of what you said, I agree with but why would they have Goku them destroying a universe during a fight, that is just stupid. Do you believe that Thor can destroy a planet because he doesnt have the feats to back it up but I do believe it because I know how powerful he is. Do you believe Supes can destroy a planet, he doesnt have the feat of planet destroying but with time, yes, he can destroy one. Does that mean that they just go around busting planets when they fight no. Galactus has on panel showings of destroying a solar system, why doesnt he destroy one every time he fight, it wouldnt make sense. We do know that Frieza can destroy a planet and we also know that after the frieza saga, Goku power level was billions of times more powerful than Frieza. Does that mean that a good guy like Goku has to go around destroying universes, no, it would mess up the story.

When frieza fought Goku, he was faster, stronger, more durable and that was because his powerlevel was higher. Hell, Goku as a Super Sayain had the powerlevel of 12million 5 and Frieza power level was only 12 million and he lost because Goku was physically and overrall more powerful. The small gap in powerlevel means a lot. when it comes to those things.

Nappa was punching through planes like paper and Nappa feats of taking on the army is just much more impressive than people like Thor, Supes, etc... and again, he is a planetary threat. And Picollo along with Goku during their fight with Raditz COMBINED couldnt even touch him and with the both of them power wise together, it was slightly below. I cant believe that you dont think frieza is above high herald when in his weakest state he destroyed a planet with his finger tip and the only reason why he was unable to destroy planet namek right away is because he just tanked the spirit bomb and then just got through getting his a** ripped up by a Super Saiyan. Frieza lost a lot if not ALL of his energy.

Originally posted by carver9
And again, the only way to discredit nappa being a low herald or possibly higher is by ignoring his feats. Nappa could take over earth and do it at a better fashion thaaan, Wonder Woman or Black Adam, or even Captain Marvel. He has the feats proving this and again, Raditz was declared as being a planetary level threat and I cant picture any meta being a planetary level threat.

sure, napa couldn take over Dragonball earth, hell, even evil king piccolo almost took over the Dragonball earth. but if napa or king piccolo tried taking over dc earth or marvel earth, dc/marvel heros would put the smackdown on both of them.

Dragonball earth sucks balls. aside from the z warriors, they have no one else.

Originally posted by carver9
Most of what you said, I agree with but why would they have Goku them destroying a universe during a fight, that is just stupid. Do you believe that Thor can destroy a planet because he doesnt have the feats to back it up but I do believe it because I know how powerful he is. Do you believe Supes can destroy a planet, he doesnt have the feat of planet destroying but with time, yes, he can destroy one. Does that mean that they just go around busting planets when they fight no. Galactus has on panel showings of destroying a solar system, why doesnt he destroy one every time he fight, it wouldnt make sense. We do know that Frieza can destroy a planet and we also know that after the frieza saga, Goku power level was billions of times more powerful than Frieza. Does that mean that a good guy like Goku has to go around destroying universes, no, it would mess up the story.

When frieza fought Goku, he was faster, stronger, more durable and that was because his powerlevel was higher. Hell, Goku as a Super Sayain had the powerlevel of 12million 5 and Frieza power level was only 12 million and he lost because Goku was physically and overrall more powerful. The small gap in powerlevel means a lot. when it comes to those things.

Nappa was punching through planes like paper and Nappa feats of taking on the army is just much more impressive than people like Thor, Supes, etc... and again, he is a planetary threat. And Picollo along with Goku during their fight with Raditz COMBINED couldnt even touch him and with the both of them power wise together, it was slightly below. I cant believe that you dont think frieza is above high herald when in his weakest state he destroyed a planet with his finger tip and the only reason why he was unable to destroy planet namek right away is because he just tanked the spirit bomb and then just got through getting his a** ripped up by a Super Saiyan. Frieza lost a lot if not ALL of his energy.

The main problem is, that even with power levels taken into account, you simply can't prove things like strength out put, speed, durability, etc. There's no way to begin to account for how power levels effect strength, speed, etc. And if we do take them at face value and assume that a power level of 2000 is exactly twice as strong, fast, durable, powerful, etc as someone with a power level of 1000....

You see the problem, right?

And Goku and the gang non busting planets make sense. They're heroes, they have no reason to. The villains on the other hand...why wouldn't they? Especially those who can survive in space? PIS? CIS? Even if that's the case, it's faulty to say or assume that DBZ characters can tank planet destroying blasts, because if they did...well, the planet would be gone. It doesn't make any sense. Planet busting attacks, 9/10 are hyped up and charged for a few moments. And most of the time in DBZ, most attacks aren't anywhere close to the planet busting scale. Even the ones deflected or dodged resemble nukes at best.

I agree that, generally, a higher power level means higher stats, but to what degree? It can't really be proven one way or another if someone from the Frieza saga shattered a mountain with a blow and in the Buu saga, did the same thing with the exact result. There's no system to break it down with.

If we put all our stock in the power level theory, it just snowballs into absurd claims that nobody can really prove one way or the other.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Waaaait, wait wait. Since when is Nappa low Herald? haermm I'd say Mid Meta. 😐

Mid meta for a guy that can easily destroy cities? No. Atleast a low herald. At the very least.

Nappa is mid herald and Majin buu by asociation is skyfather level. heh gotta love some DBZ fans reasoning or should i say their lack thereof.

Nappa has feats to prove it. Not my fault.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The main problem is, that even with power levels taken into account, you simply can't prove things like strength out put, speed, durability, etc. There's no way to begin to account for how power levels effect strength, speed, etc. And if we do take them at face value and assume that a power level of 2000 is exactly twice as strong, fast, durable, powerful, etc as someone with a power level of 1000....

You see the problem, right?

And Goku and the gang non busting planets make sense. They're heroes, they have no reason to. The villains on the other hand...why wouldn't they? Especially those who can survive in space? PIS? CIS? Even if that's the case, it's faulty to say or assume that DBZ characters can tank planet destroying blasts, because if they did...well, the planet would be gone. It doesn't make any sense. Planet busting attacks, 9/10 are hyped up and charged for a few moments. And most of the time in DBZ, most attacks aren't anywhere close to the planet busting scale. Even the ones deflected or dodged resemble nukes at best.

I agree that, generally, a higher power level means higher stats, but to what degree? It can't really be proven one way or another if someone from the Frieza saga shattered a mountain with a blow and in the Buu saga, did the same thing with the exact result. There's no system to break it down with.

If we put all our stock in the power level theory, it just snowballs into absurd claims that nobody can really prove one way or the other.

Why cant we prove anything like strength output? Like I said before, Nappa has showings that put him at high end 100 tons along with speed combat showings of dodging bullets coming from numerous of fighter jets, ships, tanks, etc... without being touched. Nappa has taken down armies better than any high herald that I have seen pitted against armies by using his speed, strength, durability and energy output. We have seen Thor against fighter Jets, we have seen Supes against tanks (during the imperex saga) and it wasnt impressive at the least.

I dont understand the things that you are saying about power levels because it is pretty clear to me. A human has the power level of 5, master roshi had the power level of 100 and humans was unable to detect or see him fighting wise. He is far stronger than a human etc... Goku and Picollo during the raditz saga both was at 500 and Raditz was 1200 and they were physically slower, weaker, and less powerful than raditz by a large gap. They couldnt even touch him until they had to play trickery on him.

Frieza had plenty of reasons not to blow up namek. Frieza had plenty of reasons not to just go around destroying Galaxies. Frieza wanted to rule and he wanted to do it with an iron fist. That was the main reason he wanted immortality. Same for Vegeta; Vegeta had no reason to blow up earth since, well, he came there for the dragonballs. The androids didnt have a reason to blow up earth, their main reason was to hunt Goku down and kill him. Cell boasted about his power and only wanted a challenge, he didnt want to destroy everything... that wasnt his purpose.

Fat buu, thats all he wanted to do was eat. Super buu, same as Cell, he wanted a challenge. Hell, he flew to the lookout just to find Goku and fight him. Merged buu tried on numerous of occasions to destroy everything but he was stopped by Vegito. Kid buu blew up every planet looking for Goku and Vegeta. He thrived to fight them.

No villian on DBZ ever wanted to just destroy EVERYTHING. That would have been just ridiculous. We all know that Celestials can destroy everything, why havent they done it yet. There are evil one out there so again, why not just blow up everything when you can? When Thanos had the gauntlet, why didnt he just destroy everything? He had the power, why didnt he do it. Its all based around PLOT. It was stated how powerful Cell was, it was stated how powerful frieza was. People were there to stop them from using this said power and you want to know why, PLOT.

Speed? From what I have seen, I cant spot a high herald that has done anything CLOSE to what DBZ character has done. Again, all the things that has hit high heralds, all the attacks that dropped them wouldnt happen to a DBZ character because it wouldnt touch them. I can give THOUSANDS of scenerios but thats all you would do is throw them off as low showings.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
sure, napa couldn take over Dragonball earth, hell, even evil king piccolo almost took over the Dragonball earth. but if napa or king piccolo tried taking over dc earth or marvel earth, dc/marvel heros would put the smackdown on both of them.

Dragonball earth sucks balls. aside from the z warriors, they have no one else.

What are you talking about? Nappa soloed Earth army without breaking a sweat and without being touched by one bullet or blast. I have seen Thor go against fighter jets and didnt do as CLOSE to what Nappa did and I have seen Supes entire uniform get ripped to shredds by earths army during the Imperex saga.

So Nappa taking down the army that consist of Shooting Jets, Tanks, Ships that is shooting cannons at him, along with bombs and didnt receive a scratch is hellava impressive.

Just let this thread die

"Vegeta will wtf own him!"
"No he won't, proof?"
"Proof? Bulma would blitz him!"
"You kidding me? Bulma would be owned by Black Panther Shuri"

It gets very old...

😂

Originally posted by carver9
What are you talking about? Nappa soloed Earth army without breaking a sweat and without being touched by one bullet or blast. I have seen Thor go against fighter jets and didnt do as CLOSE to what Nappa did and I have seen Supes entire uniform get ripped to shredds by earths army during the Imperex saga.

So Nappa taking down the army that consist of Shooting Jets, Tanks, Ships that is shooting cannons at him, along with bombs and didnt receive a scratch is hellava impressive.

like i said, in the dbz universe, earth's army sucks balls.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
like i said, in the dbz universe, earth's army sucks balls.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Army in pretty much every universe sucks compared to the hero's/villains otherwise heros wouldn't be necessary.

the skrull's army was ok. and dbz earth have no other heros aside from the z warriors. no wonder napa had an easy time.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
the skrull's army was ok. and dbz earth have no other heros aside from the z warriors. no wonder napa had an easy time.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The Skrull army was good because they copied the powers of heros

Actually they still sucked nonetheless 🙂

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Actually they still sucked nonetheless 🙂

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The Skrull army was good because they copied the powers of heros, I was talking about earth's army/tech in general, a shitload of villains or heros (if they would turn villain) could solo Marvel earths or DC earths armies.

shitload of villains and or heros? i guess your giving marvel earth/dc earth's armies more credit then i thought you wou7ld. i thought you'd say "a handfull of heros/villains" 😛

you're giving too little credit to earth's military tech. the earth's combined military might, dc or marvel, has enough firepower to take-out most super powered threats. of course not including herald levelers and above.

hell, in marvel, they could just drop hellicarriers on sentry level threats 😆

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
like i said, in the dbz universe, earth's army sucks balls.

There is nothing to suggest that DC/Marvel army>DBZ army. By looking at the things that DBZ army did, I feel good saying that there army> DC/Marvels army.

Again, I have witnessed high heralds go against the military and didnt do close to what Nappa did. And that still doesnt change the fact that Nappa was a planetary level threat and he is considered a herald.

I know for a FACT that he isnt a high meta because people like Iron man, Namor, Colossus and Thing are high metas and Nappa would solo this team in two panels.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
the skrull's army was ok. and dbz earth have no other heros aside from the z warriors. no wonder napa had an easy time.

There were other super powered fighters during original Dragon Ball. Tenshinhan was at a greater level than even Roshi, who himself is a bullet timing moon buster, and he was trained by a seperate master. There's likely other capable warriors, not to mention dragons and the like seen in tournaments, But the Z crew had Kami's support, and their own personal Saiyan.

Aku-man would be horrendously overpowered against many villains, considering his claim to fame is the ability to make evil people explode. The more evil you are, the more deadly his attack.