The Dresden Files

But just to add regarding Molly, consider what I just posted, plus the fact that she's been in love with Harry since basically forever, plus what happens with

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Lara

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the ground underneath her was literally freezing as they walked out of Harry's new castle. That's probably going to be pretty torturous for her.

I also have a number of things to say regarding Marcone and a couple others, but will do that later.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Decided to bump the actual thread in case discussions go on for more than a few posts.

Finally got a copy of Battle Ground and finished it yesterday. Also got the Brief Cases anthology while I was at it. Worth picking up as it has a lot of insightful backstories told from other characters' perspectives, along with Harry's adventures with Rivershoulders. The two from Molly's POV are particularly interesting though and probably tie the most into the series' larger plot. And you also realise that Harry has no idea how much Molly has actually changed and what being the Winter Lady cost her. She literally

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cannot have sex or it would destroy the Winter Lady's mantle, as she is the "maiden" of the three with the Queen being the "Mother" and Mother Winter the "Crone". And the Mantle will protect itself to keep her chaste, literally possessing her and beating the shit out of anyone she might want to get sexual with. Which is extra sucky as being the Winter Lady amplified her libido. Carlos' injuries he had before the main battle? That was Molly when they tried hooking up after doing a mission together. It's also a common trope in Faerie folklore that wicked Faeries take children. Yeah, that's one of Molly's jobs now. She's literally the wicked Faerie who comes to take children away now, literally to use them as child soldiers against the Outsiders.

As to Battle Ground? I liked it overall, but I did have a few gripes with it. Mainly around some PIS moments as well as a few character inconsistencies with previous novels. I did like the wider lore expansion quite a bit though and thought the ending in particular was pretty good.

I will probably give a more detailed post regarding my thoughts once I've had a chance to let things simmer a bit.

Interesting, I wonder why. Since Maeve was clearly able to have sex and even tried to boink Harry. It could be that she can't have sex with mortals.

Given Harry is the winter knight she could probably f*ck him lol. He might be the only non-fae she can hook up with.

Originally posted by Surtur
Interesting, I wonder why. Since Maeve was clearly able to have sex and even tried to boink Harry. It could be that she can't have sex with mortals.

Given Harry is the winter knight she could probably f*ck him lol. He might be the only non-fae she can hook up with.

Maeve tried to, but it never got to that point. I don't actually recall there being proof of her actually having sex with anyone. Or maybe that was part of the Nemesis thing. Maybe it stopped the Mantle from holding her in check and she just didn't get pregnant. The story in question, Cold Case, makes it clear that Maeve had been abdicating her duties for around 200 years, causing all sorts of problems in the process. Though the problems she caused makes sense, considering Nemesis. As mentioned, one of the roles of the Winter Lady is collecting children as soldier recruits for the Outer Gates. Maeve shirking that duty weakens their defenses.

But Mab made it clear that it's no sex. Period. Because if Molly got pregnant, it would literally destroy the Winter Lady mantle, being the role of the "Maiden". She'd have to either lose the mantle or become the new Mab. Because one moment she and Carlos were kissing and getting nekkid, the next moment she found herself covered in blood and Carlos' maimed body on the ground. Not even like Harry who just goes into Psycho Predator mode. The mantel straight up blacked her out and went to town on Carlos. Which, on a somewhat related note, also explains his particular feelings regarding the Faeries, which comes out towards the end of Battle Ground.

It's also kind of funny. Butcher claims he's made his career out of torturing Harry, and he really took it up a notch, especially with the villain gauntlet. Because Butcher loves beating Harry up by throwing villain after villain at him, but this one really took the cake.

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I mean along with Huntsmen, all the fodder Fomor and their allies, he'd already been in a fight with a friggin' kraken, the giant who survived Thor, and Drakul before he'd even gotten near the Titan.

Though Drakul was one of the inconsistencies. Because back in Blood Rites I think it was, McCoy mentioned that it was Dracula that started the Black Court in "teenage rebellion" or something along those lines to Drakul. But now Drakul is King of the Black Court and no Dracula. So, that was weird. I suppose McCoy could just be misinformed though.

Another inconsistency was Namshiel's character. Pretty much the only things they kept was the uber magic skills and the thorns. Because in Proven Guilty, when they arrive at Arctis Tor, they find the gates destroyed and the defenders incinerated with Hellfire. And Dresden was like WTF, because it would take an extreme amount of power to summon that much heat in the heart of Winter. He even speculates that he'd be nowhere near capable of doing it himself.

Then when Harry encounters him in Small Favor, he shows total contempt for humanity, and speaks in a weird, Eastern European accent IIRC. And Tessa specifically refers to him as Namshiel, not a host name, indicating possession in this instance rather than partnership. And then Harry literally has divine intervention both times they fight in order to survive (first with the Soulfire hand and later with Michael saving his ass when Namshiel had him on the ropes on Demonreach). And Mab later reveals that she and Uriel had a common foe who had to "pay" for Arctis Tor, indicating that it was Namshiel who did it. So, beyond the fact that he was apparently infected by Nemesis and pushed to attack Mab, his accent changed to being British, his willingness to cooperate with humans changed, and it also seems weird that Mab wouldn't notice the fallen angel she has personal beef with riding shotgun with one of her newest BFFs in Marcone. Also, it felt like Harry wasted his Soulfire on that ice wall (instead of just surpercharging it with the ambient magic overload like he did with his other spells through most of the night, or simply being more creative than trying to brute force against giants) just so that they had the whole "we need to find infernal/angelic power" shtick to give Marcone his moment at the end. Though in that regard, Nicodemus now has a legit potential rival for leadership over the Denarians. Marcone already moved in on some of his territory due to the events of Skin Game and now he's backed by another among the most powerful of the Fallen.

That being said, along with a few other moments in the book where I felt the good guys under-utilised their skills and resources for the sake of moving the plot along and amplifying Ethniu's threat factor, I liked the rest of it. There was a bunch of lore expansions, particularly surrounding the relationships between the various deities, angels and such which I found very interesting, as well as some wider activity implications based on a few things Ethniu said. Also,

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He Who Walks Beside

Also, I was both right and wrong about

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Murphy. Right in my speculation that Butcher cultivated that relationship so that Odin could eventually claim her as one of his revenant warriors, but wrong about it being a plot device to keep her around. Because based on the whole faded memory thing and factoring in the lifespans of some of the people who knew her, she won't be returning to the mortal plane for a long, long time.

And Mab has once again

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hinted at granting Dresden some form of immortality at some point. There was the Skin Game "only human" "for now" exchange, and then Mab's comment about her and Dresden bickering until "the end of time". So, from her POV of slowly molding Dresden into her ultimate weapon, him getting booted from the White Council and, by extension, no longer being beholden to their laws, is perfect for Mab. Poor Ebenezer though. It must be hard to watch. Harry is walking pretty much the exact same path his mother did, Faeries, White Court, isolation from other Wizards, and the fear from many of those around him.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Maeve tried to, but it never got to that point. I don't actually recall there being proof of her actually having sex with anyone. Or maybe that was part of the Nemesis thing. Maybe it stopped the Mantle from holding her in check and she just didn't get pregnant. The story in question, Cold Case, makes it clear that Maeve had been abdicating her duties for around 200 years, causing all sorts of problems in the process. Though the problems she caused makes sense, considering Nemesis. As mentioned, one of the roles of the Winter Lady is collecting children as soldier recruits for the Outer Gates. Maeve shirking that duty weakens their defenses.

But Mab made it clear that it's no sex. Period. Because if Molly got pregnant, it would literally destroy the Winter Lady mantle, being the role of the "Maiden". She'd have to either lose the mantle or become the new Mab. Because one moment she and Carlos were kissing and getting nekkid, the next moment she found herself covered in blood and Carlos' maimed body on the ground. Not even like Harry who just goes into Psycho Predator mode. The mantel straight up blacked her out and went to town on Carlos. Which, on a somewhat related note, also explains his particular feelings regarding the Faeries, which comes out towards the end of Battle Ground.

Interesting, looks like I'll have to check out "Brief Cases". When it came out I glanced at the stories listed and saw I had read most of them, but I guess he added a few new stories. I'd already read the bigfoot, etc stories.

It's interesting that Maeve had been neglecting her duties for centuries, yet Nemesis only had infected her for around a decade.

Originally posted by Surtur
Interesting, looks like I'll have to check out "Brief Cases". When it came out I glanced at the stories listed and saw I had read most of them, but I guess he added a few new stories. I'd already read the bigfoot, etc stories.

It's interesting that Maeve had been neglecting her duties for centuries, yet Nemesis only had infected her for around a decade.

Guess that's what a couple of centuries worth of sexual frustration does? Because, as I mentioned, the Mantle of Winter Lady actually significantly amplifies the wielder's sexual urges while making it impossible for them to be with anyone sexually. Which seems very cruel, even though there is a canonical explanation for this provided in the story. Which is why the thing with

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Harry and Lara

But as to the rest of Brief Cases, yeah, some of the stories are older. I'm not sure which all you've read, but just to give you an idea, there are stories revolving around Luccio, Marcone and Butters as well. Molly has two from her POV and, as I said previously, probably the two most relevant to the wider main story in terms of providing further background info. There's even some interesting info regarding Outsiders in Cold Case which also further ties into the wider God/Deity lore provided in Battle Ground. Based on some of the more recent stuff, we're actually only seeing a tiny fraction of what's going on in the Dresden-verse.

On a random note, if Butcher decides to do more stories focused on other characters that aren't so tied to the main plot, I'd love to see a one set during the French & Indian War. Based on some of his comments during fan discussions, Listens-to-Wind, McCoy and Langtry were not only all around at that time, all roughly the same age (about Dresden's current age), but McCoy and Langtry actually fought on opposite sides of that war. Butcher also implied that McCoy threw it down with Listens-to-Wind for the first time somewhere around that period as well. Three of the heaviest magical hitters around (Butcher has said they were "brawny wizards, like Harry"😉 throwing it down during that period could make for a very interesting full novel. Never mind short story.

I am reading Summer Knights right now. I also own cold days, death masks and proven guilty.

I freaking love these. It's good to see other people still enjoy reading actual books these days. I haven't read brief cases yet or a few others but working on it.

Off topic but have y'all ever read Roger Zelaznys "princes of amber" novels? They are amazing.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I am reading Summer Knights right now. I also own cold days, death masks and proven guilty.

I freaking love these. It's good to see other people still enjoy reading actual books these days. I haven't read brief cases yet or a few others but working on it.

Off topic but have y'all ever read Roger Zelaznys "princes of amber" novels? They are amazing.

Not familiar with Princess of Amber. Will give it a google search some time. And Summer Knight is probably still one of my favourite novels in the series. Dead Beat is another one I particularly enjoyed. If you haven't yet, it's still best to try and read them in chronological order, so that you can follow the larger plot that evolves over the series. But that can be hard to do with the short stories, as they don't always get released in the proper sequence with everything else.

Based on Jim Butcher's past comments, there's going to be 20-21 "case" books (so another 3 or 4 of the ones like we've got so far, where they have their own stories with the overarching series plot evolving alongside), and then have a "Big Apocalypse" trilogy of novels to end off the series, which will be meaningful to those who read the last novel that was released. So, 23-24 books in total when all said and done. At least that was the plan. But based on his history, Butcher might still change the line-up.

Whoops. Princes not Princess lol. And seems they're not too badly priced. Less than half the cost of Battle Ground per novel from the looks of it.

I've recently been reading some Warhammer 40k stuff again as well. Re-read The Beast Arises series and I got some of the new Dark Imperium series stuff (well, newish, they came out in 2017 and 2018 IIRC).

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
But as to the rest of Brief Cases, yeah, some of the stories are older. I'm not sure which all you've read, but just to give you an idea, there are stories revolving around Luccio, Marcone and Butters as well. Molly has two from her POV and, as I said previously, probably the two most relevant to the wider main story in terms of providing further background info. There's even some interesting info regarding Outsiders in Cold Case which also further ties into the wider God/Deity lore provided in Battle Ground. Based on some of the more recent stuff, we're actually only seeing a tiny fraction of what's going on in the Dresden-verse.

I read them. Turns out I'd read all the stories on there except the ones from the perspectives of Lucio, Maggie, Molly, Mouse, and the Harry zoo story. I was familiar with the marcone one and the other ones with bigfoots kid, etc.

I really liked the Mouse story. Really added a new layer to things.

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Mouse has an evil brother out there now. The stuff with Molly was interesting, poor Ramirez probably thought he was gonna lose his virginity.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I am reading Summer Knights right now. I also own cold days, death masks and proven guilty.

I freaking love these. It's good to see other people still enjoy reading actual books these days. I haven't read brief cases yet or a few others but working on it.

Off topic but have y'all ever read Roger Zelaznys "princes of amber" novels? They are amazing.

Well Summer Knight is the 4th book. Cold Days 14th. Death Masks is 5 and Proven Guilty 8.

Ideally you should try to read them in order. A lot happens between Summer Knight and Cold Days.

And if people are interested in audio books I think you can find all of them on youtube for free.

James Marsden(Spike from Buffy) voices Harry.

Personally I am not a big audio book fan. The only one of his books I have listened to on audio was Cold Days, and that was after I read it I was curious to give the audio book thing a try.

Originally posted by Surtur
I read them. Turns out I'd read all the stories on there except the ones from the perspectives of Lucio, Maggie, Molly, Mouse, and the Harry zoo story. I was familiar with the marcone one and the other ones with bigfoots kid, etc.

I really liked the Mouse story. Really added a new layer to things.

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Mouse has an evil brother out there now. The stuff with Molly was interesting, poor Ramirez probably thought he was gonna lose his virginity.

Yeah, a lot of them are older, but the newer ones are pretty good IMO and, as previously mentioned, expands on the things we normally don't see happening in the universe.

And yeah, but then we knew

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from the very beginning Mouse wasn't the only one of his kind. But I really like Mouse, so always good to learn more there.

Carlos can't catch a break. Or, more accurately, he keeps catching them. They explain the whole sexual and aggressive urges thing due to Winter needing to both constantly fight and breed in their endless war with the Outsiders. And they also explain why Molly can't indulge on the sexual end. But I think it's also a kind of sink or swim test for the Winter Lady. Because all of the roles and restrictions she has on her puts her through a kind of baptism of fire that forces her to become intimate with Winter and its children but also forces her to face the cold, harsh realities of what she will need to do in the future as well. Because Molly also mentioned in the one novel that the High Sidhe constantly attack her telepathically in her sleep IIRC. So, kind of a super harsh test to see if the Winter Lady can cut it to be the next Winter Queen. And if they can't? Well, as Maeve learned, you can always be replaced. Hell, the telepathic assaults are probably to prevent another Maeve from happening.

But the other really interesting thing was the mention of the Old One, the Sleeper. Because it's mentioned in Dead Beat IIRC that the Outsiders were the servants to the Old Ones. So, I am guessing there are other Old Ones, as in outside our universe masters of the Outsiders, locked up in Demonreach, which is part of the reason they keep trying to break in. Which is also interesting that there are different kinds of "demons/demon lords/gods" both from the Nevernever and from outside the boundaries of the universe. Also wonder how active those Sleeper cults are. Because apparently Lovecraft made it all too easy for them lol.

There also seems to be long history between the gods, angels and archangels, which also would explain if it had been Uriel or one of the others Murphy had been channeling against the Red Court. Because we also see one speak through Butters when he tanked the blast from Gungnir. So, seems they rock up and make their voice heard when older powers/gods act out. Because IIRC, when Michael killed Siriothrax (somehow), the Dragon was building a cult of power under him (which was how Charity was involved), which would probably cause large-scale problems long-term. And there was clear recognition between Ethniu and Namshiel as well, and she also recognised the Blackstaff, which is now pretty much confirmed to be Atropos aka Mother Winter's walking stick, considering the black shadow of the old chrone which formed around him at one point during the battle.

Also, seems Odin is the inverse of what we thought, based on what Gard said. Not he is Odin holding many mantles, but rather the power of Odin split into various smaller mantles, probably so that he doesn't explode reality by manifesting in it, like it was also implied Ferrovax's true form would. Makes me wonder if they have avatars also dicking about on other planets. Because Ethniu pointedly commented on Earth being "one, little planet" during her end conversation with Marcone. Because I always did kind of wonder why Archangels do so little that we see and why they would have the power to unmake galaxies, or why Butcher would describe Dragons as being guardians over portions of the universe, if all the action took place on one planet.

And lastly, on a more humorous note, Jim really does try to drive home that Lacuna is a tooth fairy without explicitly saying it. Hatred of pizza and candy, likes things like celery, all the teeth-related threats of violence etc. Hell, Lacuna is even another, more obscure, term for a cavity lol. Just had that as an afterthought regarding minor characters in Battle Ground.

Yeah

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I liked how God was showing Butters clues in video game terms too. Everything seems to be coming together because there is also the oblivion war too out there. I'm not sure how that connects to all this either, but it seems to connect somehow.

And yeah Molly tells Harry in Skin Game that the sidhe had been attacking her in her dreams. I don't know if it is because she is new or to prevent another Maeve. It's not clear how much of the general population of sidhe know about nemesis.

I just binged the hell out of all Dresden stories
What I love about the Dresden files is that everybody is just dude or a gal. Not uber evil or mega good, just your regular kind after years on the path

Also, did anyone notice, but in Battle Ground

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Molly got stabbed in the shoulder by the Fomor but she completely ignored it. Should she be really hurt since iron is basically kryptonite for Fae

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
I just binged the hell out of all Dresden stories
What I love about the Dresden files is that everybody is just dude or a gal. Not uber evil or mega good, just your regular kind after years on the path

Also, did anyone notice, but in Battle Ground

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Molly got stabbed in the shoulder by the Fomor but she completely ignored it. Should she be really hurt since iron is basically kryptonite for Fae

Might be a couple of things.

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Most obvious one is it was an oversight by Jim, which is a possibility. Alternatively, that particular blade was maybe of some other material, despite the Fomor deploying a lot of iron overall. Or another possibility is, given the weird psycho-sexual thing Winter has going, getting stabbed like that, as long as it isn't a mortal blow, might even be enjoyable to them to a degree. Those Winter folks are a bunch of weird ones. I mean they were basically made for eternal warfare, considering their role in defending the Outer Gates.

And yeah, two of the things I love about the Dresden Files is that Butcher not only created a pretty balanced setting, with rules and reasons that keep things from falling into the DBZ over the top power trap (like too much magic in one place literally breaking reality), but also made a lot of the characters very relatable. Even the more uber characters have elements of depth and humanity to them, or if not that, at least display emotions and things we can relate to.

What I really want to know is just what people see when they soulgaze Dresden. Because nearly every being that has done so, magical or otherwise, have virtually shit their pants after doing so.