Void w/ PG vs. Juggarnaut

Originally posted by bbrem123
continued?...show me the continuation please...it shows one panel of hulks foot move only an inch back nothing more...saying juggernaut was pushing him the whole time is foolish

You are assuming that since this is a still picture and not some cartoon, that Hulk's foot was stopped after being pushed. That's why Hulk moved aside when Juggernaut was distracted by Xavier and said something like, "You're unstoppable? Fine be unstoppable". Then used his forward momentum against him, launching him into the nearby lake/pond.

Originally posted by janus77
juggernaut was pushing Hulk, hence the pile of dirt, then the Hulk STOPPED Juggernaut's forward motion, which is when the earth started to give out and Xavier called out to them to stop.

everytime Juggernaut's forward motion gets stopped, it redirects dowwards - see GodBlast example.

Wrong. The writer has said Juggernaut was not stopped, but it was a close as he was ever going to be by a pure physical force. You can direct something downward without first stopping it. If you need an example, a plane starts it's downward decent to land. It is still moving forward but at a downward angle.

Gage, Writer of WWH: X-men:

"The Hulk slowed the Juggernaut’s forward progress down to almost a stop, but Juggy was still moving forward very slowly."

Originally posted by quanchi112
You already agreed with me and I have given examples of far less powerful characters overiding Jugg's powers.

I don't have to. You already agreed with me that he can be hurt by someone more powerful than him.

Can Dr. Strange hurt Juggs?

There are three ways to kill juggs

1: Mindrape
2: Cutting the link then killing him
3: Being strong enough to kill cyrotakk

Void is none

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You are assuming that since this is a still picture and not some cartoon, that Hulk's foot was stopped after being pushed. That's why Hulk moved aside when Juggernaut was distracted by Xavier and said something like, "You're unstoppable? Fine be unstoppable". Then used his forward momentum against him, launching him into the nearby lake/pond.

Wrong. The writer has said Juggernaut was not stopped, but it was a close as he was ever going to be by a pure physical force. You can direct something downward without first stopping it. If you need an example, a plane starts it's downward decent to land. It is still moving forward but at a downward angle.

In any case, if you want to argue that Juggernaut was pushing WWH, what we do see is Juggernaut propelling himself so quickly once the stalemate ends, that WWH had either stopped, or slowed his momentum to a mere crawl. Accordingly, Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment was thwarted by WWH's pure strength.

And as for your quote, here's another quote.

Gage, Writer of WWH: X-men:

This wasn't like in the classic Spidey story "Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaut" where he was walking forward and Spidey was trying to stop him; it was a brawl. Juggy was trying to kick the Hulk's butt, not push past him or push him backward. So the question doesn't really apply in this case.

Best,

CNG

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you're going to go by the writer's conflicting statements, than you better recognize that Gage has said at certain points that WWH briefly stopped him and another time said that it was only a contest of strength where he wasn't even trying to push him back.

In any case, if you want to argue that Juggernaut was pushing WWH, what we do see is Juggernaut propelling himself so quickly once the stalemate ends, that WWH had either stopped, or slowed his momentum to a mere crawl. Accordingly, Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment was thwarted by WWH's pure strength.

Try again. The quote I posted was Gage trying to end all arguments over the matter. When he said stopped before, he wasn't talking about his momentum. He meant Cain's goal of beating the Hulk.

WWH never stopped Juggernaut. Gage put an end to that.

^ Try again. The quote I posted was Gage trying to end all arguments over the matter. When he said stopped before, he clarified it was a matter of semantics.

WWH stopped Juggernaut momentarily. Gage put an end to that.

Regarding your question, it's really a matter of semantics... Hulk momentarily stopped Juggernaut by presenting a big, strong target that redirected his force downward, which endangered the mansion.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Try again. The quote I posted was Gage trying to end all arguments over the matter. When he said stopped before, he clarified it was a matter of semantics.

WWH stopped Juggernaut momentarily. Gage put an end to that.

Again, Try again. The quote I posted was the most recent one on the matter. The semantics part, of the quote you posted, was Hulk stopping Cain's goal of defeating him.

But believe what ever you want. I'll take the writers final word over what you think happened based off all of the crazy e-mails. What I posted came from his website. The statement is titled, "My most asked question!" . He released it last year, as opposed to the one you posted which was done 3 years ago.

hu?,this stuff in an Comics board signed with the Gage Christos name?
c'mon this writer proof is a joke is not an official Marvel Proof,also an mail exist where the writer say WWH briefly stopped juggernaut in mere seconds,and days after he change his mind,where is the true really?
i need an real proof certified by Marvel,other that is cleary indicate in about 2 panel that WWH stopped the Juggernaut charge before juggernaut locked-up with Hulk and regain Momentum for push Slowly WWH in about 1 inch,if is not seconds is milli-seconds But he stopped juggernaut,who never stopped his charge by himself ...........
just like the false "Test of strenght" thing,who is not true.......
in an interview,Gage Christos explain an test of strenght only with Colossus,not with Colossus and Juggernaut..........
Juggernaut is cleary in motion,who explain why Hulk Bfred him with ease later....................
People just don't like the idea..............

Originally posted by Devron87
hu?,this stuff in an Comics board signed with the Gage Christos name?
c'mon this writer proof is a joke is not an official Marvel Proof,also an mail exist where the writer say WWH briefly stopped juggernaut in mere seconds,and days after he change his mind,where is the true really?
i need an real proof certified by Marvel,other that is cleary indicate in about 2 panel that WWH stopped the Juggernaut charge before juggernaut locked-up with Hulk and regain Momentum for push Slowly WWH in about 1 inch,if is not seconds is milli-seconds But he stopped juggernaut,who never stopped his charge by himself ...........
just like the false "Test of strenght" thing,who is not true.......
in an interview,Gage Christos explain an test of strenght only with Colossus,not with Colossus and Juggernaut..........
Juggernaut is cleary in motion,who explain why Hulk Bfred him with ease later....................
People just don't like the idea..............

Wait did you attempt a poison the well fallacy and then attempt to drink from the very well you just poisoned? 🤨

So Gage Christos is the WordOfGod only when it suits you?

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Again, Try again. The quote I posted was the most recent one on the matter. The semantics part, of the quote you posted, was Hulk stopping Cain's goal of defeating him.

But believe what ever you want. I'll take the writers final word over what you think happened based off all of the crazy e-mails. What I posted came from his website. The statement is titled, "My most asked question!" . He released it last year, as opposed to the one you posted which was done 3 years ago.

Thanks for your assistance.

In the meantime, I'm still going with this:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In any case, if you want to argue that Juggernaut was pushing WWH, what we do see is Juggernaut propelling himself so quickly once the stalemate ends, that WWH had either stopped, or slowed his momentum to a mere crawl. Accordingly, Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment was thwarted by WWH's pure strength.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Wait did you attempt a poison the well fallacy and then attempt to drink from the very well you just poisoned? 🤨

So Gage Christos is the WordOfGod only when it suits you?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Wait did you attempt a poison the well fallacy and then attempt to drink from the very well you just poisoned? 🤨

So Gage Christos is the WordOfGod only when it suits you?

^Strange peoples here,
need to bash woman? warning is not too far........

this WWH/Juggernaut debate is boring,i just forgot that......
if peoples only need to ref to unofficial proof,misinformations or Fanboyism,discute about WWH and juggernaut here is just stupid......

This isnt even a WWH vs Juggs thread anyways.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So now you realize and have amply pointed out yourself the absurdity of relying on the writer's comments. Because he literally performed a 180 degree turn-around on the same exact issue.

Thanks for your assistance.

In the meantime, I'm still going with this:

I only proved myself right and you wrong. There is more than one use for the word, "Stopped" even in the case of Juggernaut's character. In case you didn't read it the first few times, Hulk stopped Juggernaut's objective of defeating him, not his forward momentum.

You and devron need to think about what it takes to stop Juggernaut. Regardless of Hulk's strength, his ability to push against Juggernaut is only as strong as the thing he is standing on. In other words the ground will only continue to give way.

I was one that e-mailed Gage back then, and in his reply he said he never meant that Hulk stopped Cain's momentum.

Here is basically a scenario of what goes down:

Juggernaut could push an adamantium statue of Hulk around forever. The statue would never buckle or give way. The ground which the statue is standing on would, however, continue to break apart behind him. There is no support on Earth physically strong enough to hold against Juggernaut's enchantment. Without some kind of energy, Thor's Godblast/Celestial power, there is no way of stopping Juggernaut.

The two of you could argue all you want and say the comic displays this and that. But the two times Juggernaut has been stopped, it has obviously been displayed and even said in the narration. In WWH case, neither happened. Hulk even accepts that Juggernaut was unstoppable with his comment.

^ You're using "proof" from a writer that's see-sawed back and forth on this, most likely due to the incessant whining of Hulk fanboys and Juggernaut fanboys. It'd be more understandable if the writer was commenting on somebody else's work. But this was his own writing. How do you get confused on your own writing? Nevertheless, it's obvious you accept this "proof" as the pendulum is swinging your way...

... but as you readily admitted, you apparently couldn't accept the initial answer Gage provided when the pendulum swung the other way. You actually persisted with email inquiries to him despite his answers. If you want to rely on a writer quanchiwaffling on his own work just to get fanboys off his back, that's your cup of tea.

I think I've pointed out the absurdity of that kind of reliance well enough, but you're the one who punctuated it by revealing that you were an active participant in that.

WWH thwarted Juggernaut's unstoppability. On-panel. Absent WWH's opposition, Juggernaut was obviously advancing far faster than can be explained by WWH's slap on the back. By all appearances, it was a stalemate that couldn't be resolved definitively since the foundation was being destroyed.

But your claim that only special energies and no mere physical force can ever stop Juggernaut is dubious. When you get down to it, (at best) Juggernaut was slowed to a bare crawl by normal WWH. This wasn't even a peaked WWH. He wasn't near as angry as he was when he got napalmed by Ironman. And he wasn't even close to WBH levels.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You're using "proof" from a writer that's see-sawed back and forth on this, most likely due to the incessant whining of Hulk fanboys and Juggernaut fanboys. It'd be more understandable if the writer was commenting on somebody else's work. But this was his own writing. How do you get confused on your own writing? Nevertheless, it's obvious you accept this "proof" as the pendulum is swinging your way...

... but as you readily admitted, you apparently couldn't accept the initial answer Gage provided when the pendulum swung the other way. You actually persisted with email inquiries to him despite his answers. If you want to rely on a writer quanchiwaffling on his own work just to get fanboys off his back, that's your cup of tea.

I think I've pointed out the absurdity of that kind of reliance well enough, but you're the one who punctuated it by revealing that you were an active participant in that.

WWH thwarted Juggernaut's unstoppability. On-panel. Absent WWH's opposition, Juggernaut was obviously advancing far faster than can be explained by WWH's slap on the back. By all appearances, it was a stalemate that couldn't be resolved definitively since the foundation was being destroyed.

But your claim that only special energies and no mere physical force can ever stop Juggernaut is dubious. When you get down to it, (at best) Juggernaut was slowed to a bare crawl by normal WWH. This wasn't even a peaked WWH. He wasn't near as angry as he was when he got napalmed by Ironman. And he wasn't even close to WBH levels.

Keep trying. You take things as if words have one meaning or one discription. Stopping Juggernaut can have more than one meaning/description. His momentum can be stopped, someone could stop him from stealing money from a bank or stop him from completing his objective. Gage was thinking Hulk stopped Juggernaut from completing what he wanted to do, which was defeat Hulk.

I didn't quarrel with the answer Gage had given. His first e-mail had been made public to this forum through the user DEVILHULK without proof other than his word. Due to his post and reputation, (he thinks Hulk could defeat Galactus and WWH defeated Cyttorak in WWH: X-men), I followed the link he provided and e-mailed the writer myself asking a more thorough question.

I got back an answer saying he did not mean Hulk stopped his momentum. So quit with the analogy with the pendilum. It seems to apply to you more than me. Even so, if the writer, in his final words on the matter, had said Hulk stopped Juggernaut, I would leave it at that. I would think it shouldn't happen, but I would accept the final words.

WWH only thwarted his defeat at Juggernaut's hands.

^ Amazing. Are you actually trying to suggest that Gage was completely consistent with his statements? You're really trying to argue that Gage didn't completely flip-flop? He's goes from this:

Regarding your question, it's really a matter of semantics... Hulk momentarily stopped Juggernaut by presenting a big, strong target that redirected his force downward, which endangered the mansion.

This wasn't like in the classic Spidey story "Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaut" where he was walking forward and Spidey was trying to stop him; it was a brawl. Juggy was trying to kick the Hulk's butt, not push past him or push him backward. So the question doesn't really apply in this case.

Best,

CNG

The Hulk slowed the Juggernaut’s forward progress down to almost a stop, but Juggy was still moving forward very slowly.

sam

You're not good enough to quote PF or SLJ for that matter. And your quotes kind of help me out. "It was a brawl...Juggy was trying to kick Hulk's butt." In other words, Hulk stopped Juggernaut from beating him. He did so by tricking him. Hulk made Juggernaut basically destroy the foundation causing the old man to panic and divert Cain's attention.

In the end, Gage has put the final stamp on things. So WWH did not stop Cain's forward advance.

Two things

1: From my interpretation its pretty clear that hulk stopped a juggarnaut that was moving fowards.In my belief he shouldn't have been able to do that but what happens happens.

2: Can we get back onto the actual topic of the thread?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Can we get back onto the actual topic of the thread?

ODG, BBz has a point. Let's just agree to disagree. I can see how you think what you do from those early e-mails. That's why I tried to be very thorough with mine to Gage, and he clarified things on what he meant in his reply.