Katara had the advantage of using scrolls and being trained by Pakku.
Zuko had the advantage of being trained by two of the top firebenders in the series.
Azula had the same advantages as Zuko, along with being a prodigy.
Excluding Aang who was trained by all of them, plus being the avatar and having a natural affinity, i consider it even when it comes to the advantage thing.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Toph is probably the best out of all of them bar Aang's obvious advantage as the Avatar. Although Katara is also insanely skilled considering she reached the level shes at inside of a year.
I thought Zuko was the one who was second to Aang personally. :T
And he's an ideal opponent for Toph lol.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Zuko? Why? Zuko is the weakest imo.
Well he's fought with Katara and shown more or less quite a bit of skill while doing so. Going by their fight in season one, he would be stronger. I'm blanking on how the Ba Sing Se fight went but I don't remember Zuko being on the receiving end of a beatdown. And in book 3 he's always fighting Azula to a tie more or less. :T
As for why he's a could match for Toph, in season one he showed that he could burn the ground. Do it to Toph lol.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well he's fought with Katara and shown more or less quite a bit of skill while doing so. Going by their fight in season one, he would be stronger. I'm blanking on how the Ba Sing Se fight went but I don't remember Zuko being on the receiving end of a beatdown. And in book 3 he's always fighting Azula to a tie more or less. :TAs for why he's a could match for Toph, in season one he showed that he could burn the ground. Do it to Toph lol.
They more or less stalemated when they fought in the Crystal Catacombs, until Azula helped him beat her.
Also, Azula cannot handle Waterbenders like Katara as well as she can handle Aang or Toph. 😛
Originally posted by KingD19
I know Zuko was trained by Iroh, but I don't think Ozai gave him the time.
He did learn the meaning of Fire-bending from the two Dragons.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well he's fought with Katara and shown more or less quite a bit of skill while doing so. Going by their fight in season one, he would be stronger. I'm blanking on how the Ba Sing Se fight went but I don't remember Zuko being on the receiving end of a beatdown. And in book 3 he's always fighting Azula to a tie more or less. :TAs for why he's a could match for Toph, in season one he showed that he could burn the ground. Do it to Toph lol.
Well yeah, in season one they were equal. But season three Katara would defeat him imo. By that point Katara was doing insane things like taking out a battleship singlehandedly and the display of mastery when she tracked down her mothers killer. Both during the day when her power is weaker. When you factor in that Katara has only had actual bending training for 6-9 months its clear that shes the superior bender than him. Shes a prodigy rivaling Azula and Toph (ever notice the prodigies are all chicks?).
Or Toph could disable him in any number of ways such as incasing him in rock like she did to Ty Lee and Azula.
Plus she invented an entirely new form of bending at the age of 12. 😐
I'm not granting Katara prodigious status. She's talented, but she didn't master bending on her own or even learn all that quickly; if she were a prodigy, she would have mastered the moves on that scroll a whole lot faster than she did. What she did do is get lessons from Pakku, who is by all accounts the best waterbender in the series.
Azula and Toph, though, i agree.
Azula and Toph didn't master bending on their own either and they are at the same level as Katara with years of experience and training on her. Azula as the Fire Princess clearly had the very best training possible and Toph was taught by the original Earthbenders themselves. And Pakku says that Kataras the best student hes ever had and progressed more quickly than any student hes ever had.
The scroll was just some movements, nowhere near as good as an actual masters instructions or past-life experience.
disagree.
They aren't the same. Toph and Azula reached the pinnacle of their element without help... Toph with Metalbending and Azula with lightning.
Also, Azula was actually said to be a prodigy, which means she excelled without help... meanwhile, katara may be their equal, but everything she knows was taught to her by the elite benders of the series.
I think that the fact that they did have help invalidates your point somewhat. 😐
Since when did Azula teach herself lightning? She's seen practising it, not discovering it. Toph was taught everything but Metalbending by the Badgermoles.
Being a prodigy doesn't mean that you didn't have help. We see in the flashback that she was taught firebending forms and sequences at a young age. She didn't pull her skills out of her ass, she was taught, just like all the other characters (except Toph).
i didn't mean to suggest that Toph and Azula didn't have any help at all, just that they excelled without it.
Also, the part about Azula isn't my opinion, it's a statement of fact from the writers of the series. validity intact.
Seeing as Katara reached the level she did at her age, i'll concede the point.
Azula is a prodigy as she's the only firebender shown with blue fire and hers seems to pack a lot more punch than the standard, but with the lightning the twins were shown practicing with her.
As for Toph, the only, only reason she discovered metal bending is because her blindness and earth-sense allowed her to find the mineral impurities in the metal. And she became such a skilled earth bender because she had all the pre-requisites of the originals. Blindness and training directly from the Badger Moles.
If Zuko had been trained from birth by the dragons he would have easily been one of the most powerful firebenders in the series from early on.
Originally posted by marwash22
i didn't mean to suggest that Toph and Azula didn't have any help at all, just that they excelled without it.Also, the part about Azula isn't my opinion, it's a statement of fact from the writers of the series. validity intact.
Seeing as Katara reached the level she did at her age, i'll concede the point.
She actually became a Master-level bender just after a few weeks of training with Pakku. Even if she had someone to help her become a powerful bender, she's still a prodigy as she taught herself Waterbending before the series started. Then there's her mastering Blood-bending after seeing it just once and besting the very person who created it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well yeah, in season one they were equal. But season three Katara would defeat him imo. By that point Katara was doing insane things like taking out a battleship singlehandedly and the display of mastery when she tracked down her mothers killer. Both during the day when her power is weaker. When you factor in that Katara has only had actual bending training for 6-9 months its clear that shes the superior bender than him. Shes a prodigy rivaling Azula and Toph (ever notice the prodigies are all chicks?).Or Toph could disable him in any number of ways such as incasing him in rock like she did to Ty Lee and Azula.
Plus she invented an entirely new form of bending at the age of 12. 😐
She took out the battleship when she was right in the middle of an Ocean. End of Book 2 Katara could have done that.
She's more talented than he is, but by the series end, they're still roughly equals IMO, unless there's a full moon, or Sozin's Comet is out.
Zuko would dodge that shit.