I don't see sustained injuries being much of a problem, no one before Dick is going to give him anything approaching a fight. He'll get to Bruce easily... not sure if he wins though. He might need to relax and let the Batwoman fight go to decision to get some extra recovery time while he easily avoids her every move.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Steve Rogers/Bat Family UFC Guantlet
Originally posted by Q99
She is in the comics.
She is more skilled but Batman is stronger, more durable, heavier, has a longer reach and close enough in speed (if not flat out faster) for that to be a negligible advantage. Anyone Cass can beat in h2h, Batman would beat... likely easier.
Currently, Nightwing thinks he can beat Cass in h2h and that her move reading ability will only slow him down so much.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Steve Rogers/Bat Family UFC Guantlet
Last Cass vs Capt in pure HtH thread put that alone at a very close fight according to most posters.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
She is more skilled but Batman is stronger, more durable, heavier, has a longer reach and close enough in speed (if not flat out faster) for that to be a negligible advantage. Anyone Cass can beat in h2h, Batman would beat... likely easier.
Hah. Cass is faster without a doubt, more agile, dodger, a smaller target, and can inflict some pretty insane damage, as well as the whole move reading thing and having a brain that allows her to pull moves that are mentally impossible for him.
Less weight means less momentum means she can change directions faster (it's not total strength that determines speed or that kind of stuff, but strength-to-weight ratio), and half her moves put all her body weight behind them in crazy spin kicks that low mass lets her do faster.
They've fought, Batman had to retreat constantly and use belt gadgets to stalemate her. Also, compare their respective showings against Deathstroke: 3 draws (Cass), or vastly in Slade's favor (Bruce).
Batman is close to her, really there's probably no martial artist that either *couldn't* beat, but I'm pretty sure even he gives her the nod as the best fighter in the world and having better odds against the few people better than him, like Shiva.
You might think those things put him above, but that doesn't make it so as demonstrated.
Currently, Nightwing thinks he can beat Cass in h2h and that her move reading ability will only slow him down so much.
Where did he think that?
Because even improved as he's been recently, he's not there yet.
Originally posted by Juk3n
No really a problem as on-panel implication show Cap as a vastly superior combatant to daredevil. Id say Cap rolls the first 5, in a round.Gets serious and relies on his stat advantage to overwhelm the next 3, takes hits at Nightwing but adjusts his style to counter the agility of the wing.
All I meant was that Nightwing has gotten a push so he'd give Roger's more of a fight than he would have in the past. That's all. I'm not one to underestimate Rogers.
Originally posted by SamZED
Its just I know Jason is a real beast and Tim is a great fighter too. I dont see Cap get passed them and still be in a good enough shape to beat Nightwing.
I see Cap plowing through either Jason or Tim without too much hassle if his serious.
He'd get a fight, but he'd get past him.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Steve Rogers/Bat Family UFC Guantlet
Originally posted by Q99
Last Cass vs Capt in pure HtH thread put that alone at a very close fight according to most posters.Hah. Cass is faster without a doubt, more agile, dodger, a smaller target, and can inflict some pretty insane damage, as well as the whole move reading thing and having a brain that allows her to pull moves that are mentally impossible for him.
Less weight means less momentum means she can change directions faster (it's not total strength that determines speed or that kind of stuff, but strength-to-weight ratio), and half her moves put all her body weight behind them in crazy spin kicks that low mass lets her do faster.
They've fought, Batman had to retreat constantly and use belt gadgets to stalemate her. Also, compare their respective showings against Deathstroke: 3 draws (Cass), or vastly in Slade's favor (Bruce).
Batman is close to her, really there's probably no martial artist that either *couldn't* beat, but I'm pretty sure even he gives her the nod as the best fighter in the world and having better odds against the few people better than him, like Shiva.
You might think those things put him above, but that doesn't make it so as demonstrated.
Where did he think that?
Because even improved as he's been recently, he's not there yet. [/B]
So I see you've attributed the statement that what she does is mentally impossible for normal humans as being mentally impossible for Batman. lol? Batman, and every other active street, operates with the same coordination ability to multi-task without diminishing returns.
Batman and Cassandra have never actually fought. They've spared, and Batman did his best to a void fighting her in Batgirl 50 by running, because - in his own words - he didn't want to hurt her. Taking either of those as some how being indications of what a fight would look like like if Batman actually wanted to throw down is insane. Batgirl is able to beat Shiva the same reason that most of the time David Cain lets her walk all over his face without fighting back. CIS. It's some twisted maternal / paternal instinct, not any edge that Cassandra has. David Cain has shown that he can can compete with Cassandra if he wants... and Batman has completely wreaked Cain before. If she wasn't her daughter, Shiva would put her down too. Bruce would be a straight up nightmare for her in a real fight.
Batman is actually 1-1 against Deathstroke, that's better than 3 stalemates (one of which where Deathstroke was stated as toying with her).
Dick said it before RIP and his Batman skill boost. He told her she wasn't psychic, she can only guess what he'll do next, and that eventually she would be wrong and he would have her.
Other than Batman, Cap could take any of these guys to the mat and they would zero options. They would need to do something illegal to break his hold, he's just too big and too strong... and his advantage in stand up is only slightly weaker then a ground game. He's going straight to Nightwing without much effort.
So I see you've attributed the statement that what she does is mentally impossible for normal humans as being mentally impossible for Batman. lol? Batman, and every other active street, operates with the same coordination ability to multi-task without diminishing returns.
Yes, because the reason David Cain trained Cass from birth in the first place was because he couldn't become the perfect fighter and he couldn't train Bruce Wayne to be the perfect fighter either. Only Cassandra met his goal.
The 'mentally impossible' was by a group of people who study metas btw, and know the actual limit of the human mind, scientists. We aren't just talking normal multi-tasking, keep in mind Cassandra has additional areas of her brain devoted to fighting. They said the aggregate speed was superhuman. Not peak human or almost impossible, superhuman and mental impossible.
Batman calls Cassandra's fighting perfect. Bronze Tiger bows to her. These are people who'd know.
Dick said it before RIP and his Batman skill boost. He told her she wasn't psychic, she can only guess what he'll do next, and that eventually she would be wrong and he would have her.
(Ah yes, the Beechen Batgirl mini had that bit).
.... that's not how her powers work 🙂 No surprise Beechen doesn't know that. It's not guessing, it's the opponent's body telling. Dick should know better, Cassandra will never 'guess' wrong.
And, guess what? He tries to stop her in issue 5 of the same series and she brushes him aside with a kick to the face. Also in issue 1, when he says that, she's pretty casually defending against him and disarmed him. Not really the best series to quote.
Heck, the Outsiders one where they fight more evenly, more like he fights when Batman, (til Alfred stops them because Alfred > All Bats) has her shrug a few blows and still was asking him to give up. And yea, he can put up a fight nowadays, but she's still better.
Shiva beats him, and Cass beats Shiva. And Cass is... really, really tough for her size, with defense as her best area. One mistake is not a win, even if Dick connected he'd still lose. Shiva landed many blows on her and still lost.
Batgirl is able to beat Shiva the same reason that most of the time David Cain lets her walk all over his face without fighting back. CIS. It's some twisted maternal / paternal instinct, not any edge that Cassandra has.
Please, Shiva wanted someone worthy enough to kill her and later talks about how incredibly proud she is that Cassandra beat her. Heck, in the Destruction Daughter's story line she talked about how her first defeat against Cass realize her flaws and made her push even harder. Shiva treated it as a legit win and is far less parental than Cain, she cares about Cass because Cass is the one who can beat her.
You're calling CIS but have nothing to back it up, just "oh, Dick held his own once instead of being rolled over," "every one of the people who talk about her performance as if it's the best, which it visibly is, must be wrong or biased," and that sort of thing.
Cassandra consistently does this well and tons of top martial artist back up how strong she is (BT, Batman, Shiva, Canary, Connor...).