truejedi
no, i mean it. When have you addressed a single post to me on this entire thread yet? So don't say i "side-stepped" your posts when we haven't even been discussing this.
What the fvck?
truejedi
would it now? Batman almost beat Superman, if I remember correctly. Sun came out at the wrong time or something and ruined it.
Me
Batman beat Superman in TDKR... after slapping him around with a volley of x-ray-activated hunter missiles, shooting him with an explosive charge "that could sink a battleship," hitting him with sonics that blow out every window on the block, frying his brain with "every watt" of the city's power grid, squirting acid in his eyes - this is where Bruce observes that he's "finally gotten him angry" - gassing him with synthetic kryptonite, and punching him repeatedly with a suit powered by the city.Oh, and Superman had just had his flesh ripped off by a nuclear bomb that also threw "hundreds of millions of tons of soot into the stratosphere" and blocked out the sun, cutting him off from his source of power. He gets something back by draining the stored energy of a jungle, but by the time he and Batman fight, the feedback from Bruce's suit tells him Superman isn't fighting at a hundredth of what he is. Even then, before the kryptonite gets put into play - delivered in an arrowhead by the greatest archer on the planet, by the way - Superman has Batman on the ground against a buckled lamppost with three broken ribs and a crushed wrist while he's just broken a sweat.
So yes, with dedicated preparation - culminating in his "best trick" - and the assistance of two third parties, Batman beat a Superman fighting at less than a hundredth of his full strength who didn't really want to hurt him.
Take from that what you will.
truejedi
I think we should include ALL batmen. We include information on Star Wars characters from all sources. We should do the same for selected opponents in this thread.BTW, I think Mara Jade can take Batman.
Me
😐Young Jedi, you must learn to read.
[regarding the earlier, several thousand character post posted again below]:
Me
Mara Jade isn't nearly cool enough to head a title with Batman, who again is only once at best [The Dark Knight Returns] portrayed in a manner that suggests he could be a fair fight for her anyway.That said, if people like the premise, I'd be fine with Mara Jade circa LOTF and TDKR Batman.
I'm particular about this incarnation of the character because he strikes a reasonable balance between the weaker depictions [live-action] and the absurdly dangerous continuity and animated versions. No one in the former category - particularly the Nolan/Bale Batman - has demonstrated on any level the ability to prepare for and deal with a prescient psychokinetic who can dodge bullets and cut a tank in half.
A continuity or animated Batman lies on the other end of the spectrum. IIRC, in JLA: Tower of Babel, Batman's notes explain that if he was violently confronted by any rogue charter member of the Justice League barring Superman, he'd be able to "wing it." He prepares contingency plans anyway, but the fact that he feels he could handle Wally West or the Martian Manhunter on a whim suggests that a fight with Mara Jade would be a walk in the park. Physically, he often does difficultridiculousimpossible things.
In a JL[U?] episode, TAS Batman rewrote a program for a belt that controlled time, and managed to do so simply because "he got a good look" while fighting the man wearing it. That establishes his ability to deal with extremely weird shit in a very short period of time. If you want to see what he can do physically, just YouTube it.
TDKR Batman is still fast enough to - mostly - evade gunfire, agile enough to shoot a tightrope across rooftops and sprint over it, strong enough to pull a man through a sheetrock wall, skilled enough to do lots of extremely skillful things, and smart enough to qualify as the goddamn Batman.
This Batman, however, is fallible. He is weaker, slower, and yet apparently much luckier than he was in his prime, when he could presumably ban gay marriage with a sidekick. He is technologically far behind his continuity and animated peers, which is not to say that he doesn't have a tank impervious to all human weaponry, a helicopter that can turn invisible, and a power suit that - with lots and lots and lots of preparation and a wee bit of atomic luck - helps him beat down Superman, but he's more limited in what he can bring in against Mara.
So I vote Batman as seen in The Dark Knight Returns. I think this is the one instance in which a case could be made for either character, depending on what parameters we establish regarding the nature of their preparation.
truejedi
this is probably a good point. Can you give me an example where it would screw us up, just to drive it home?
Me
You have the comic continuity [canon] Batman, which is like the equivalent of a movie or EU character we might use here. You would be drawing on the information presented to you by several hundred different comics, which would be like the SW movies or novels or comics. Everything that is accepted as canon to the core DCU would be fair game.Then you have, say, the Batman from Nolan's duology.. The only "canon" information here is what is presented to us in the movies [or accompanying novels], because it is a completely different and entirely separate take on the character. There are obviously overlaps in plot, character, and theme, but this movie series and the canon continuity exist independently of one another. One does not in any way affect the other, and as a result of Nolan's "realistic" interpretation of Batman, his character would get curbstomped by its canon DCU counterpart.
There are easily a dozen different interpretations of Batman that I can think of on the spot, from the four different movie characters to the multiple animated versions and all the different noncanon graphic novels. We are picking one to draw on, and I personally think the only one that would be a solid match for Mara Jade, neither fodder nor overkill, is the one in The Dark Knight Returns.
Edit: Also, lil bitz of education. Any three or four of those scans should convince you that Superman would rape any SW character at or in excess of the speed of light.
Read.