Atheism in comics

I think it's a refreshing point of view to see fleshed out, after the hordes of religious references, characters and literal gods that characters themselves are, or see frequently.

That being said, what separates a character like Superman from being a god if Thor is? Little more than a title.

Similarly, the DCU has many abstract forces to reckon with. If they were real, how would we separate the ones that carry religious context from the ones that are entirely alien in nature? I don't think, from a perspective such as Mr. Terrific's, that it would be entirely possible.

Put like that, it makes sense. But then again, for all the random supermen, cosmic beings and artifacts of power, both Marvel and DC have a person where the buck stops with them. TOAA and Source (?)

Thor is a small God from a small world.

I would think they would just view all of the various gods as simply powerful aliens who call themselves gods.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I would think they would just view all of the various gods as simply powerful aliens who call themselves gods.

Why not call him a God? What does he need in your eyes to earn that title? Same for the Spectre's boss. Why can't Mister Terrific call Him God?

what's the point of calling the LT god? if you're gonna water down the absolute and eternal quality of the concept, why not come down to something less remote, a power that does have a day-to-day impact, in the comic universe... say The Phoenix Force or something.

God is meant to be the ultimate answer, not an interim fix.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I can understand that. But at a certain point it becomes utter lunacy to make such distinctions. Take the Living Tribunal, he's so powerful that even if he doesn't conform to your preconceived notions of God as per the standard Abrahamic traditions he's as close to a God as you're likely to ever meet.

Why not call him a God? What does he need in your eyes to earn that title? Same for the Spectre's boss. Why can't Mister Terrific call Him God?

You're basically just defining the title of god to be anything powerful enough. That doesn't really work. Would you call the AIM scientists gods for making a cosmic cube?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You're basically just defining the title of god to be anything powerful enough. That doesn't really work. Would you call the AIM scientists gods for making a cosmic cube?

There's a quote from a Futurama game that sums up my view quite nicely:
"You found me out... I'm not really a god... I'm * cough* * cough* just an ordinary... Eternal, omniscient, superintelligent being."

I'm reminded when Genis-Vell decided to call himself a god on the basis that, hey, he's stronger than the Norse gods (who at the time had Asgard parked over NYC) and has cosmic knowledge.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm reminded when Genis-Vell decided to call himself a god on the basis that, hey, he's stronger than the Norse gods (who at the time had Asgard parked over NYC) and has cosmic knowledge.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Honestly in absence of a true Objective definition a God must be defined subjectively.

noun: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force

Would that make the phoenix force a god?

The norse deitys are worshipped.

The abstractsd control aspects of "life".

Originally posted by Q99
Mr. Terrific accepts that the Spectre exists, he just views him as a being who's made of/uses unusual forms of energy not currently fully understood. Which is a fairly rational stance, considering how most superpowers have vague explanations at best, and I think Batman's stance isn't much different. In other words Mr. Terrific accepts what's there, he just takes a secular stance on it's nature.

I think the Presence would take a dim view of such non-divine interpretations. In the DC universe, unbelievers like Mr. Terrific and Batman are probably destined for hell when they die. Not Supes though.

Originally posted by Q99
Dr. 13, on the other hand, doesn't accept magic as existing at all. This is fairly irrational and can only be maintained because he more-or-less has an anti-magic aura around him that keeps him from meeting magic, according to the Phantom Stranger.

Doesn't he ever watch television? The news broadcasts in DC must be full of such magic stuff.

Originally posted by Bentley
Noh-varr's maths are better 😎

Yeah, Gorgon is kind of dumb and probably doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. His equation is probably the equivalent of 5 + 5 = 42. I'd trust Noh-Varr's maths over Gorgon's any day.

What about believing in God but not the books or religions that claim to speak on God's behalf.

Originally posted by basilisk
I think the Presence would take a dim view of such non-divine interpretations. In the DC universe, unbelievers like Mr. Terrific and Batman are probably destined for hell when they die. Not Supes though.

If we go by Sandman, Hell is for those who believe in it.

Personally I doubt the Presence particularly cares, though some angels might.

Doesn't he ever watch television? The news broadcasts in DC must be full of such magic stuff.

Also his daughter is a mage.

Maybe his magic-aversion field extends to what news shows he happens to see? That or none of the TV shown magic is testably real.

Originally posted by basilisk
I think the Presence would take a dim view of such non-divine interpretations. In the DC universe, unbelievers like Mr. Terrific and Batman are probably destined for hell when they die. Not Supes though.

You really think DC's God would cast Bruce n Micheal into hell for not believing in him despite their actions, intention, will n efforts? Man thats a self centered n petty anal god. 😕

Good thing I don't believe in him either!

Total atheism is obviously false in DC and Marvel comics since we've seen that the Norse and Greek gods definitely exist (though questioning if they deserve the title of "god" is pretty reasonable, they're not exactly at the top of the food chain).

On the other hand arguments against, to pick a popular example, Christianity are just as valid in popular comics as in real life. The same lack of evidence of the Christian god is there as IRL. You can't say that "the Greek gods exist so the Christian god must also exist" either, that's as silly as saying that since deer and unicorns both have four feet we should assume that both exist.

In other settings not believing in the Christian god is clearly wrong (though in many cases the arguments are still valid). The Sandman/Lucifer world does have Yaweh.

Originally posted by basilisk
I think the Presence would take a dim view of such non-divine interpretations. In the DC universe, unbelievers like Mr. Terrific and Batman are probably destined for hell when they die.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
When Mister Terrific was considering suicide the Spectre stopped him and convinced him that he should use his talents to become a hero rather than throwing his life away senselessly. Clearly the Spectre's boss has some plans for Michael Holt and I very much doubt they involve him going to Hell.

...at least, not until He has made use of him!

Originally posted by Entity
You really think DC's God would cast Bruce n Micheal into hell for not believing in him despite their actions, intention, will n efforts? Man thats a self centered n petty anal god. 😕

Good thing I don't believe in him either!

Some types of christians (and many muslims) believe that any unbeliever, no matter how good, loving, or unselfish a life they have lived, will still go to hell. Others believe that rather than going to hell the good unbelievers just die and go to oblivion and nothingness rather than heaven. Others see God as more forgiving and giving them a final chance to accept God when they are judged, or something along those lines.

^

DC kind of covered their bases on that one though when they explained in Sandman and Lucifer that hell was merely a process people had to go through before they went to heaven and it was a place to live for the people who didn't want to go to heaven like the serial killers etc. etc. who where proud of what they had done.

Originally posted by GGS
^

DC kind of covered their bases on that one though when they explained in Sandman and Lucifer that hell was merely a process people had to go through before they went to heaven and it was a place to live for the people who didn't want to go to heaven like the serial killers etc. etc. who where proud of what they had done.

What was it like for the serial killers - a punishment or just a place to go?

Here's a question: Lucifer rebelled against God and was cast into hell. Then as Satan he tempts people into doing evil and not following the path of God. So why exactly does he then punish them for eternity in hell? If he likes evil so much why doesn't he reward it and get everyone to be evil instead of following God, instead of punishing evildoers and scaring people into following God, which is probably doing what God wants?