Atheism in comics

Started by Omega Vision3 pages

Originally posted by basilisk
What was it like for the serial killers - a punishment or just a place to go?

Here's a question: Lucifer rebelled against God and was cast into hell. Then as Satan he tempts people into doing evil and not following the path of God. So why exactly does he then punish them for eternity in hell? If he likes evil so much why doesn't he reward it and get everyone to be evil instead of following God, instead of punishing evildoers and scaring people into following God, which is probably doing what God wants?


Gaiman's Lucifer actually doesn't do the whole stereotypical soul-trading business. In fact he doesn't seem to care much about people's salvation.

He abdicates the Throne of Hell when he realizes that he's just a pawn in God's game.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Gaiman's Lucifer actually doesn't do the whole stereotypical soul-trading business. In fact he doesn't seem to care much about people's salvation.

He abdicates the Throne of Hell when he realizes that he's just a pawn in God's game.

Gaiman's Lucifer>Bible Satan

Originally posted by amnesia
Gaiman's Lucifer>Bible Satan

Because he's not based on the Biblical Satan, he's based on John Milton's Lucifer.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Because he's not based on the Biblical Satan, he's based on John Milton's Lucifer.

And Paradise Lost is based on the Bible.

Look, I think the point most people are totally missing here is this: Gorgon was a mutant genius-level intellect. Noh-Varr was an alien Kree from an alternate reality, where laws and cosmology may very well differ. Besides, Aaron wrote that issue, so it really is kind of a subtle if profound joke, because in his Ghost Rider run, the Christian God is very much real...

In marvel has the idea of a one and total god been established? Would the person who thanos refers to in Marvel: The End count? Cuz if so the idea of a totally omnipotent god has been referenced in both companies.

Although it confuses me how Quasar is an atheist when he knows a couple gods himself.

Heh. Not sure how I missed this when it was made. Anyway.

1. I'm not sure why the Thor's and Pantheons and such are even popping up here as an argument. The clear idea is "God" as opposed to gods. Anyone saying something akin to "Hercules exist in Marvel so atheism is completely illogical" isn't grasping the issue enough to contribute meaningfully. The fact that Thor once mused that he didn't know who to pray to is a wonderfully poignant take on it. Same with abstracts and such, who are incomprehensibly powerful, but still clearly limited.

2. Enough ineffable, omnipotent, all-seeing type of entities exist in the comic universes that it would make sense for many of the heroes who are aware of them to be theist, though certainly not of any religion we currently have on our earth.

3. That, however, doesn't rule out atheist tendencies or make them illogical, since a single all-consuming, all-knowing, all-etc. being is hard to pinpoint in either universe, at least from the perspective of most heroes. Even abstracts like Spectre and LT only represent higher forms of power, not "God" in the sense that an atheist would disavow belief in. Even a being who creates a universe, for example, would be that universe's creator but wouldn't be the deific "source" of Creation itself.

4. No more atheists exist in comics than we'd expect from a reasonable pool of people on Earth. About 15-18% of the world's population is non-religious, according to the best census data we have available to us, with anywhere from 2-4% being atheist. Attempts to paint comics as secular, imo, are misleading, as there are far more "neutrals" or those of some faith, than those with a pronounced lack of belief. And if we're to use Mr. Terrific as our guinea pig, he's often undermined by those claiming a belief in a higher power, or forced to scrutinize his beliefs due to outside events, usually without a clear justification of his position. If anything, I see him as much an endorsement of some kind of belief as any overtly religious character. I've read JSA for a long time, and have never seen him as a secular propoganda piece for writers, but rather a mirror for other characters to examine their own beliefs and attitudes. If others believe otherwise, cool, but I'd ask for reasons why that use examples from the comics themselves. Because foils enhance each other's characteristics in writing, so juxtaposing him with Spectre so often is a great way to create character drama. But it could be seen just as easily as an endorsement of theism because of Spectre, but the interpretation lies with the reader...it's impossible to pinpoint a specific agenda from the comics themselves.

5. Speaking of census data, yes, about 1/3 of the world's population is Christian. Whether or not they're practicing is its own matter, but if pressed to label themselves, that's about how many would list themselves as such.

6. I'm atheist, and based on my own justifications for my belief system, I'd still consider myself an atheist in at least the Marvel universe. DC, with their Biblical-style pantheons and frequent refernces to God via characters like Spectre, would be a different matter, as they seem to give numerous characters frequent justification for belief (though the concept of a multiverse and omniverse in both companies throws even some of that under considerable scrutiny). So take from that what you will. It's anecdotal, admittedly so, but used to exemplify the idea that it wouldn't be impossible to justify such a position in either universe.

.As for a fixed Supreme God, I think the One-Above-All could count...but this entity, though established to be the Creator of the Marvel Multiverse, and vastly powerful, is still somewhat vague and not frequently referenced by name..

I'm under the impression that Mister Terrific wants to believe in a higher power but can't find himself to do so. Though he did take up Pieter's offer of attending Sunday Service at least once. Off topic, but Mr. T is a damn cool character.

Has anyone posted the short conversation between Terrific and Zauriel (i think it was)?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Has anyone posted the short conversation between Terrific and Zauriel (i think it was)?

Zauriel: "Hi Terrific."
Terrific: "What are you still doing here? I wrote a thesis definitively disproving the existence of God two days ago."
Zauriel: "Huh." Disappears in a puff of logic.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm under the impression that Mister Terrific wants to believe in a higher power but can't find himself to do so. Though he did take up Pieter's offer of attending Sunday Service at least once. Off topic, but Mr. T is a damn cool character.

Sure is. T-Spheres and Tech invisibility give him one of the more unique powersets in comics today.