Wolfwood, you mean?
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JLE takes it. Sentry's powerful, but you got two people who've taken on Superman and done well (I wonder how Sentry'd react to the drugs Vera sometimes uses...? Or Coldcast's 'short circuit the nervous system' blast), you've got Wally-Flash, you've got a strong magic user (and Strange had been weakened enough in NA I'd even see Manitou win that one!), Menagerie and Major Disaster pack serious power too, and the two 'street levels' aren't bad.
The numbers involved might make it be a tough fight, but Wally on his own is good at equalizing that, and the greater number of power houses handle the rest.
Originally posted by Q99
This is 'has trouble with ninja' strange 🙂
lol this is strange before he got powered down. The fact the writer wrote him having problems with ninjas falls under the PIS category and has happened to pretty much every character (I could say "this is Flash that was having issues with Ubermensch"😉. if this was current Strange I would agree becasue of his "official" power downgrade
Originally posted by Warlord
lol this is strange before he got powered down. The fact the writer wrote him having problems with ninjas falls under the PIS category and has happened to pretty much every character (I could say "this is Flash that was having issues with Ubermensch"😉. if this was current Strange I would agree becasue of his "official" power downgrade
This is Strange as he was during New Avengers specifically, though, and he had been having power-problems during this era.
Btw, this is the Flash that was literally serving on two teams in two different parts of the world by going back and fourth so fast he appeared blurry-visible at both, ultimately resulting in him 'meeting' himself face to face via a long distance portal.
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We're still talking 2 people at Herald level at most on the NA side, and 3-4 on the JLE side.
Originally posted by Q99
This is Strange as he was during New Avengers specifically, though, and he had been having power-problems during this era.Btw, this is the Flash that was literally serving on two teams in two different parts of the world by going back and fourth so fast he appeared blurry-visible at both, ultimately resulting in him 'meeting' himself face to face via a long distance portal.
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We're still talking 2 people at Herald level at most on the NA side, and 3-4 on the JLE side.
Yet it was the same Flash who was impressed by Ubermench's speed and got KOed by him (PIS as much as the ninja thing).
who do you consider heralds from the JLE?
Flash for sure. other than that, Disaster or Manitu were rarelly impressive to me
Originally posted by Warlord
who do you consider heralds from the JLE?
Flash for sure. other than that, Disaster or Manitu were rarelly impressive to me
In addition to Wally, Vera, Coldcast, and possibly Manitou.
Manitou Raven did get most of the JLA in Obsidian Age with his birdswarm spell (Got Superman, WW, and MM in one shot!), as well as having charms that were capable of getting past Circe's charms/barriers, his stick was capable of breaking Gamemne's binding spell and making a shield that blocked J'onn's eyebeams, and of course his Inukchuck mode was capable of going physical with Quagmire Gamemne who was in turn able to toss around much of the League (although it weakens or strengths depending on the area, ground soaked with blood is worse for him, pure lands better). Transforming back and forth from birds or leaves as often as he does is fairly impressive too.
So yea, he's a fairly powerful mage.
The JL Elite never fought Ubermench. It did happen during Kelly's JLA run, but Kelly's also the one who did the "Flash evacuates an entire city from a nuke solo" that's one of Wally's best speed feats ever.
Originally posted by Q99
In addition to Wally, Vera, Coldcast, and possibly Manitou.Manitou Raven did get most of the JLA in Obsidian Age with his birdswarm spell (Got Superman, WW, and MM in one shot!), as well as having charms that were capable of getting past Circe's charms/barriers, his stick was capable of breaking Gamemne's binding spell and making a shield that blocked J'onn's eyebeams, and of course his Inukchuck mode was capable of going physical with Quagmire Gamemne who was in turn able to toss around much of the League (although it weakens or strengths depending on the area, ground soaked with blood is worse for him, pure lands better). Transforming back and forth from birds or leaves as often as he does is fairly impressive too.
So yea, he's a fairly powerful mage.
The JL Elite never fought Ubermench. It did happen during Kelly's JLA run, but Kelly's also the one who did the "Flash evacuates an entire city from a nuke solo" that's one of Wally's best speed feats ever.
Coldcast I can accept. Vera is a cyborg wich could be nothing Extremis Ironman cannot deal with (certenly not a herald in my book).
As for Manitu. I am aware of what you mention and indeed he was impressive in his first aprarences (Obsidian Age). But after that when he joined JLA he had doen nothing to suggest he is that formidable. He's good but not that good.
OMG you are still arguing about Flash. it happened some issues before the Burning (when the evacuation took part) if I remember correctly. I don't mention it to suggest Flash is slow, just to show you that anyone can pick low showings for a single character (PIS). You mention the Ninjas I mention ubermensch. we shouldn't. both of us
One minor power to note- 'Kasumi'/Cassandra Cain has a thanagarian shadow field ala Shadow Thief during her time with the JLElite.
Originally posted by Warlord
Coldcast I can accept. Vera is a cyborg wich could be nothing Extremis Ironman cannot deal with (certenly not a herald in my book).
She's a lot more powerful a cyborg than Tony. Vera and Superman were slugging it out and causing a lot of collateral damage and leave burn marks on him with her blasts.
Plus she took out Alan Scott, which is nice too (and he thought she was some villain, didn't know it was an undercover hero at the time).
As for Manitu. I am aware of what you mention and indeed he was impressive in his first aprarences (Obsidian Age). But after that when he joined JLA he had doen nothing to suggest he is that formidable. He's good but not that good.
He does another large-scale Inukchuck in Elite just as big as the one against Gamemnae, and there's the baffling Circe's magic, which is pretty impressive her being a goddess and all.
The time at the massacre fields he's less impressive, but it was specifically draining, even painful to him and boosting his opponent (and he still won).
And in the JLA, it's not that he does less well, it's that he barely does anything except get inside J'onn's soul and determine a massacre didn't happen.
You can throw out high showings if there's low showings to contradict it, but not just because a character isn't present for the action.
OMG you are still arguing about Flash.
Uh, you mentioned it last post? *Shrugs*
it happened some issues before the Burning (when the evacuation took part) if I remember correctly. I don't mention it to suggest Flash is slow, just to show you that anyone can pick low showings for a single character (PIS). You mention the Ninjas I mention ubermensch. we shouldn't. both of us
But Strange was consistently low-powered throughout New Avengers, Ubermench was only in the one story, he really could've been very fast for all we know, it's hard to even call it a low showing when it's just an unknown.
Originally posted by Q99
One minor power to note- 'Kasumi'/Cassandra Cain has a thanagarian shadow field ala Shadow Thief during her time with the JLElite.She's a lot more powerful a cyborg than Tony. Vera and Superman were slugging it out and causing a lot of collateral damage and leave burn marks on him with her blasts.
Plus she took out Alan Scott, which is nice too (and he thought she was some villain, didn't know it was an undercover hero at the time).
He does another large-scale Inukchuck in Elite just as big as the one against Gamemnae, and there's the baffling Circe's magic, which is pretty impressive her being a goddess and all.
The time at the massacre fields he's less impressive, but it was specifically draining, even painful to him and boosting his opponent (and he still won).
And in the JLA, it's not that he does less well, it's that he barely does anything except get inside J'onn's soul and determine a massacre didn't happen.
You can throw out high showings if there's low showings to contradict it, but not just because a character isn't present for the action.
Uh, you mentioned it last post? *Shrugs*
But Strange was consistently low-powered throughout New Avengers, Ubermench was only in the one story, he really could've been very fast for all we know, it's hard to even call it a low showing when it's just an unknown.
I mentioned it as a PIS example. you keep on trying to prove Wally is fast something I alredy know and do not doubt.
Vera was fighting Superman in a fake fight. It is the same fight where coldcast took him out IIRC. it wasn't a real fight. they ahve set this up.
as for allan scott I don't know the incident but I believe you. however it's not a question of raw power. it's just extremis could take over her. unless there are feats of technopath resistance.
to add to the manitu case he was unable to beat the magic guy of the Axis. I don't say he doesn't have high end showings only he's not impressive enough from what i've read (JLA mostly) to consider him a herald.
do you want me to go on with wally? I can. that's not the point. also I don't remember any instances that suggest constant power problems with Strange in NA as you mention. Taking all the Mighty Avengers (sentry included) in one spell comes in mind however
overall you say 3-4 heralds against 2. I doubt that. or even if it is so it would be some low level heralds (Wally excluded) against 2 top ones
Avengers should take 6/10 for me