Justice League Elite Vs New Avengers

Originally posted by Warlord
Vera was fighting Superman in a fake fight. It is the same fight where coldcast took him out IIRC. it wasn't a real fight. they ahve set this up.

LOL who gives a &%$*? A fight's a fight whether or not characters get prep ahead of time.

Originally posted by Warlord
as for allan scott I don't know the incident but I believe you. however it's not a question of raw power. it's just extremis could take over her. unless there are feats of technopath resistance.

Irrelevant. Extremis Tony exploiting a weakness in Vera has no connection to her general "power level".

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
LOL who gives a &%$*? A fight's a fight whether or not characters get prep ahead of time.

the fight was STAGED BY BOTH SIDES. they were putting on a show for mother earth so she wouldnt wtfpwn the world

Strange takes manitu down, sentry takes flash, IM probably takes Black and the rest can ganbang Coldcast. Wolverine would take Cassandra down by the way.

Avengers win.

Originally posted by Warlord
I mentioned it as a PIS example. you keep on trying to prove Wally is fast something I alredy know and do not doubt.

Why's it even supposed to be a PIS example though? The guy's an unknown superhuman working for the same boss as Faith, so we know the organization had some strong supers, and were apparently assembled to take on the JLA.

Vera was fighting Superman in a fake fight.

The outcome was decided. The burn marks and craters left in the ground and all that were not, she was clearly both taking high-powered hits and dishing out actual damage to Clark.

Unless he just bruises and burns on his own, which is not a power of Clark's I'm familiar with admittedly.

Also, this fight had to be realistic enough to convince Gaia herself.

It is the same fight where coldcast took him out IIRC.

Nope, that was an earlier one, totally un-rigged and in Coldcast's villain days.

as for allan scott I don't know the incident but I believe you. however it's not a question of raw power. it's just extremis could take over her. unless there are feats of technopath resistance.

Her tech's directly interfaced with her brain and has tech designed to spoof tech (as well as spoof psychics. It's black ops capabilities is *l33t*).

Plus there's a copy of her brother's mind in there waiting to take over too.

Not betting on Extremis here.

to add to the manitu case he was unable to beat the magic guy of the Axis. I don't say he doesn't have high end showings only he's not impressive enough from what i've read (JLA mostly) to consider him a herald.

What, the guy merged with the demon/djinni and made of living shadow who had no problem messing with Firestorm either and ended up retreating after a mostly-offscreen short clash?

You read the Obsidian Age stuff, and none of his other feats contradict it. If you're going to argue that he's not as powerful as OA, you need to point to low-end feats, not just point out how he was mostly a benchwarmer for his 2 other JLA stories.

There's no doubt his ultimate Inukchuck spell at least temporarily puts him at Herald level.

Taking all the Mighty Avengers (sentry included) in one spell comes in mind however

Which is something Manitou's also done.

At this level Strange cannot go head-to-head with Manitou and deal with another herald level at the same time (or probably even a less-than-herald level like Disaster).

overall you say 3-4 heralds against 2. I doubt that. or even if it is so it would be some low level heralds (Wally excluded) against 2 top ones
Avengers should take 6/10 for me

If it's 4 on 2 at the high end (and let's say that's not even Flash, have him hold off everyone else, let's say that's MD dropped big attacks on their head), Strange and Sentry'll go down, then the rest of the NA will follow.

Flash soles the avengers while sentry soles the JLE
then they stalemate

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Flash soles the avengers while sentry soles the JLE
then they stalemate

If this is void sentry, he could simply mind rape flash. But to be honest a non jobbing flash is absurd, he could blizt the shit out of sentry.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
LOL who gives a &%$*? A fight's a fight whether or not characters get prep ahead of time.

Irrelevant. Extremis Tony exploiting a weakness in Vera has no connection to her general "power level".

read the book...it was just a show..they played the whole fight...Ican't make it more clear.

Originally posted by Q99
Why's it even supposed to be a PIS example though? The guy's an unknown superhuman working for the same boss as Faith, so we know the organization had some strong supers, and were apparently assembled to take on the JLA.

The outcome was decided. The burn marks and craters left in the ground and all that were not, she was clearly both taking high-powered hits and dishing out actual damage to Clark.

Unless he just bruises and burns on his own, which is not a power of Clark's I'm familiar with admittedly.

Also, this fight had to be realistic enough to convince Gaia herself.

Nope, that was an earlier one, totally un-rigged and in Coldcast's villain days.

Her tech's directly interfaced with her brain and has tech designed to spoof tech (as well as spoof psychics. It's black ops capabilities is *l33t*).

Plus there's a copy of her brother's mind in there waiting to take over too.

Not betting on Extremis here.

What, the guy merged with the demon/djinni and made of living shadow who had no problem messing with Firestorm either and ended up retreating after a mostly-offscreen short clash?

You read the Obsidian Age stuff, and none of his other feats contradict it. If you're going to argue that he's not as powerful as OA, you need to point to low-end feats, not just point out how he was mostly a benchwarmer for his 2 other JLA stories.

There's no doubt his ultimate Inukchuck spell at least temporarily puts him at Herald level.

Which is something Manitou's also done.

At this level Strange cannot go head-to-head with Manitou and deal with another herald level at the same time (or probably even a less-than-herald level like Disaster).

If it's 4 on 2 at the high end (and let's say that's not even Flash, have him hold off everyone else, let's say that's MD dropped big attacks on their head), Strange and Sentry'll go down, then the rest of the NA will follow.

not very comfortable quoting every sentence...

let's try it this way.

- it is PIS because from his overall appearances even before this ark he has never shown speed comparable to Supes, let alone Wally.

- Tony can and has taken control/shut off tech based characters. Her tech is of course linked with her mind winch might lead you think she might be able to resist extremis BUT unless she has done it on paper (something I have not seen) saying she will not be affected is pure speculation

-You are right about Manitu in a way but as a single low showing for Strange (ninja) is enough to deem him depowered so not enough high showings are enough for me for Manitu to deem him unimpressive. In addition I would like to know when Manitu took out a group in the Mighty Avewngers level with one spell.

- Besides the ninja thing I don't really remember something else to justify the level you are making Strange to be

-And let's not pretend it's only Strange and Sentry in the group. Having basic knowledge for each other I don't see why, Wonderman let's say, can't take out MD before his attack is completed (I really don't remember him doing anything major without some concentration first)

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
the fight was STAGED BY BOTH SIDES. they were putting on a show for mother earth so she wouldnt wtfpwn the world

That doesn't make the injuries any less real. Vera and Superman weren't fighting to kill each other, but they had to make it convincing enough to fool Gaea. If Superman has some ability to lower his durability, I'm not aware of it. It actually supports the idea that Vera can dish out more damage than shown on-panel doing that fight.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
That doesn't make the injuries any less real. Vera and Superman weren't fighting to kill each other, but they had to make it convincing enough to fool Gaea. If Superman has some ability to lower his durability, I'm not aware of it. It actually supports the idea that Vera can dish out more damage than shown on-panel doing that fight.

or flash could be doing makeup at FTL 😖hifty:

😂 never even thought of that.

Originally posted by Warlord
[B]not very comfortable quoting every sentence...

let's try it this way.

- it is PIS because from his overall appearances even before this ark he has never shown speed comparable to Supes, let alone Wally.

That was his first appearance.

- Tony can and has taken control/shut off tech based characters. Her tech is of course linked with her mind winch might lead you think she might be able to resist extremis BUT unless she has done it on paper (something I have not seen) saying she will not be affected is pure speculation

When talking about her camo abilities the ability to spoof machines is specifically noted.

-You are right about Manitu in a way but as a single low showing for Strange (ninja) is enough to deem him depowered so not enough high showings are enough for me for Manitu to deem him unimpressive.

But he had more than one low showing, he was consistently lowish during that time period. The was a time when the team was falling out of a plane and iirc it took him awhile to do a simple 'feather fall' spell on everyone.

In addition I would like to know when Manitu took out a group in the Mighty Avewngers level with one spell.

The JLA.

One spell took out Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Batman, Plastic Man and Flash.

-And let's not pretend it's only Strange and Sentry in the group. Having basic knowledge for each other I don't see why, Wonderman let's say, can't take out MD before his attack is completed (I really don't remember him doing anything major without some concentration first)

He can snap his fingers and make an earthquake or make some violate substance blow up (he made Coldcast's powers basically explode once. Hm, I wonder if he could do that on any of the MA...). It only takes time for stuff like meteors where the disaster has to actually 'arrive.'

Flash can help a lot with numbers, and Menagerie is pretty high in the meta category too.

Flash aint beating Sentry and Strange could just make everyone witness their worse nightmares. Allowing deathblows. A feat he performed in New Avengers.

Or Manitou can cancel him out. Cass with Shadow Thief's tech can blindside Strange.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Flash aint beating Sentry and Strange could just make everyone witness their worse nightmares. Allowing deathblows. A feat he performed in New Avengers.

Except Sentry will be dealing with at least one probably two other Herald-levelers, and like Prep mentioned Manitou will largely be canceling out Strange.

Sentry can't deal with everything.

Cool to be honest I'm not familiar with these Elite JLs.

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents in.

So if those guys can do that.

What will all of them do about Sentry.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Cool to be honest I'm not familiar with these Elite JLs.

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents in.

So if those guys can do that.

What will all of them do about Sentry.

Coldcast's a high-level energy user who can do stuff like short-circuit nervous systems (once took out Firestorm and Faith in the same shot). He has taken out Superman before. If he's not busy fighting Sentry, who's probably the only Avenger here tough enough to take his attacks, he'd tear right through most of the lower ranks.

Vera Black is a cyborg with a wide variety of energy weapons, and has both physical durability and forcefields. She's gone toe-to-toe with Superman and her sonics have one-shotted Plastic Man. Plus she also has drug attacks that she used to take out Alan Scott. Sentry being a drug addict, those might be effective.

Manitou is a high-level mage who has a lot of powerful spells including one mass knockout spell involving sending a huge swarm of birds (took out 6 top JLAers), or converting his magic into raw physical power and size that has allowed him to match the strength of a Trans-level opponent for a temporary time. He also has a magic stick that can't be broken and a magic axe that can't hurt a good person but can cut through the non-good extra well.

Those're the three non-Flash heralds.

Not counting them, Menagerie and Major Disaster are probably high-meta or so.

I reckon Coldcast gets killed Sentry can take all that and if not reform behind the guy.

When it comes to Vera Black Sentry can fight toe to toe just like Supes and if she tries to use drugs on him. I don't believe his past addiction would have an effect.

Sentry Kills Manitou like he killed Morgan Le faye.

Once again Im not familiar with these guys Im just going off your explanations.

Wasn't Walter apart of JLE? He'd whup Sentry's ass,