Originally posted by Stoic
Marvel vs DC was partially fan based and can therefore never be accepted as being canonized. It's unethical.
So? Don't take into account the battles that were fan voted then. I personally don't have a problem with them and the ones that weren't fan voted could be used as evidence in my opinion. At least on boards other than this one.
Both writers came out and said it was cannon in an interview back in the day. Characters referenced DC vs. Marvel in their own books. Access, a character that was created during the crossover appeared in the character books.
Originally posted by Stoic
Galactus decreed that he was cast out, and he would never be able to rise again. Let's remember that it's Galactus' power, and he made sure that Terrax was grounded. It's akin to having his wings cut off.If Galactus does not give him back the power(which may never happen) He won't be getting anymore powerful. Terrax was never dumb, he wasn't exactly portrayed as the Reed Richards type either though. Nope he never got an upgrade.
If Galactus stripped Terrax of his powers recently, pls post scans. But if you're stating the Terrax in the scans you provided, IIRC that's from an era from wayyyy back w/c would mean that it is obsolete.
If you've read Annihilation, Terrax has been shown to be able to travel thru space as well as being in possession of the Power Cosmic. Unless he is stripped of his powers anytime after that point, then it HAS to stand to reason that he is in possession of the power cosmic as well as FTL travel. It's simple logic.
Upgrades or power restorations don't have to be acquired on-panel for them to exist. They just need to be SHOWN on panel to exist.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
If Galactus stripped Terrax of his powers recently, pls post scans. But if you're stating the Terrax in the scans you provided, IIRC that's from an era from wayyyy back w/c would mean that it is obsolete.If you've read Annihilation, Terrax has been shown to be able to travel thru space as well as being in possession of the Power Cosmic. Unless he is stripped of his powers anytime after that point, then it HAS to stand to reason that he is in possession of the power cosmic as well as FTL travel. It's simple logic.
Upgrades or power restorations don't have to be acquired on-panel for them to exist. They just need to be SHOWN on panel to exist.
Errors are often made by inept, or unprepared writers. No ones perfect. Continuity is what makes a digest worth reading, If this weren't the case maxi series such as the Infinity Crisis, would have never been written. Do you have any scans of him flying in Annihilation?
If what I said makes any sense at all, the reader would have to just swallow any and everything that they read, be it fiction or non fiction. I believe that Ethical practice in the work place overrules taking the easy way out by covering your ass. Many writers ignore past stories, because their too lazy or just don't give a shit about the subject matter that they work on.
Should I go for a no prize; and say to myself... Terrax went to sleep, woke up, was captured, and infested by parasites, and because of this, he is able to do something, that he was unable to do in modern day comics?
When I say that Galactus made sure that Terrax would never again rise to his previous station. What I am saying is that this type of knowledge is something that the reader has to pay attention to. It's called continuity.
🙁
Originally posted by Stoic
Errors are often made by inept, or unprepared writers. No ones perfect. Continuity is what makes a digest worth reading, If this weren't the case maxi series such as the Infinity Crisis, would have never been written. Do you have any scans of him flying in Annihilation?If what I said makes any sense at all, the reader would have to just swallow any and everything that they read, be it fiction or non fiction. I believe that Ethical practice in the work place overrules taking the easy way out by covering your ass. Many writers ignore past stories, because their too lazy or just don't give a shit about the subject matter that they work on.
Should I go for a no prize; and say to myself... Terrax went to sleep, woke up, was captured, and infested by parasites, and because of this, he is able to do something, that he was unable to do in modern day comics?
When I say that Galactus made sure that Terrax would never again rise to his previous station. What I am saying is that this type of knowledge is something that the reader has to pay attention to. It's called [B]continuity.
🙁 [/B]
Regardless of how you might feel towards the fact that the circumstances of how Terrax got his powers back happening off-panel, the fact remains that in recent continuity, he possesses the PC. And in Forum rules, that makes his posses the PC for the purposes of this debate. You -really- can't keep insisting that we should consider current Terrax to be bereft of the PC when on-panel evidence CLEARLY states that he does.
I don't have a scanner but I can point you to the EXACT page that he does. Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #1. The last page of the story right after Terrax one-shots the planet. Terrax is shown floating in space AND then at the last panel, he is shown flying away on a piece of rock.
Are there any scans to justify any of that? What book is it in? I seem to recall Terrax being aboard a space ship before he destroyed the planet that he did.
I think it was in the Heralds of Galactus #1.
Terrax clearly needed a vessel to transport him between planets.
Number 1
He hated the company that he kept, and wanted to ditch them all along.
Number 2
Had he been able to fly, he would have left them stranded, but he was in the same boat as the rest.
You are incorrect, Terrax is grounded.
Originally posted by Stoic
Also what ever effect the parasites had on them faded in time, which is why they had to be re-infested periodically. Perhaps this is why Terrax could briefly fly.I'm sorry, but this just goes back to Terrax being nearly useless in an air fight with the kid in blue.
Ok, I think you're just plain trolling now. :-/ You CANNOT be this dense.
It was shown on-panel that he flew. It was shown on panel that he doesn't need a vessel. It was shown on panel that he has the power cosmic.
It's on panel, was stated on-panel and was drawn on-panel. Thus it is canon and fact.
Heck, I did a bit of digging and here's a scan of Terrax flying away at the end of Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus, just for your benefit.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Ok, I think you're just plain trolling now. :-/ You CANNOT be this dense.It was shown on-panel that he flew. It was shown on panel that he doesn't need a vessel. It was shown on panel that he has the power cosmic.
It's on panel, was stated on-panel and was drawn on-panel. Thus it is canon and fact.
Heck, I did a bit of digging and here's a scan of Terrax flying away at the end of Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus, just for your benefit.
That's fine, it's a writers error, but fine all the same. Does the boulder that he's on make him look superior in that scan? How long do you think that it would take for Superman to remove Terrax from that boulder, destroy it, and throw him into deep space where he would have nothing to even stand on?
Superman's telescopic vision would allow him to pick out a suitable place.
Dense? not in the least, I asked you to provide the scan of which I never saw, and you did. You proved that he regained an ability that he should not have, bravo!
I was justified in asking you or anyone else at that matter to provide proof of such, because last I read on panel, Terrax could not make interplanetary trips.
Since he can now fly, it still has not been proven that he is a shadow of himself before being stripped of his power by Galactus, who made him a Herald in the first place. Nor does it show that he can take Superman, when he was handled like a child by Rulk, unless Rulk has been measured to be far superior to Superman in terms of strength.
As for Terrax flying, whoever wrote that should give a proper explaination as to how Terrax suddenly regained flight. When he clearly lost the ability.
Originally posted by Stoic
That's fine, it's a writers error, but fine all the same. Does the boulder that he's on make him look superior in that scan? How long do you think that it would take for Superman to remove Terrax from that boulder, destroy it, and throw him into deep space where he would have nothing to even stand on?Superman's telescopic vision would allow him to pick out a suitable place.
Dense? not in the least, I asked you to provide the scan of which I never saw, and you did. You proved that he regained an ability that he should not have, bravo!
I was justified in asking you or anyone else at that matter to provide proof of such, because last I read on panel, Terrax could not make interplanetary trips.
Since he can now fly, it still has not been proven that he is a shadow of himself before being stripped of his power by Galactus, who made him a Herald in the first place. Nor does it show that he can take Superman, when he was handled like a child by Rulk, unless Rulk has been measured to be far superior to Superman in terms of strength.
As for Terrax flying, whoever wrote that should give a proper explaination as to how Terrax suddenly regained flight. When he clearly lost the ability.
Okayyy....
In the same issue of Annihilation, Terrax one-shotted a planet. If this is still a "shadow of his former self" then he must have been much more powerful than Superman in his "former self" as not even Superman has shown that he is able to one-shot planets on-panel.
It was also mentioned stated and shown on-panel that Terrax is in full possession of the PC now, this would indicate that he is no longer "stripped of his power by Galactus".
Also, that was a Terrax on an alternate timeline that Rulk killed w/c makes him non-canon and thus not usable for any discussions in this forum.
If Superman smashes the rock, Terrax can simply reconstitute the rock and stand on it. :-/
Also, writers don't have to explain anything. It's your choice to believe what is written on-panel or not. Doesn't make the evidence any less solid.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
In the same issue of Annihilation, Terrax one-shotted a planet. If this is still a "shadow of his former self" then he must have been much more powerful than Superman in his "former self" as not even Superman has shown that he is able to one-shot planets on-panel.
Didn`t Galactus call Terrax his strongest or most powerful herald when he empowered him?
Not saying he is, I was just a bit suprised when I saw the scan some time ago.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Okayyy....In the same issue of Annihilation, Terrax one-shotted a planet. If this is still a "shadow of his former self" then he must have been much more powerful than Superman in his "former self" as not even Superman has shown that he is able to one-shot planets on-panel.
Superman has proven to exert more than 50 Earth weights of force. It takes less than 1 Earth weight of force to destroy a planet.
Add the fact that he's a lot faster in battle and has knowledge of pressure points then he wins. He can simply take Terrax's axe from him before Terrax can blink.
Originally posted by h1a8
Terrax used a cosmic weapon to achieve this, thus it wasn't only his power. This is like saying that since I can chop a tree down with an axe then I'm more powerful than a normal human since they can't with their bare hands.
Of course you become "more powerful" than a normal unarmed human once you arm yourself with the axe. The axe gives you "power" that the other human cannot attain with his bare hands. Your definition of what power is seems skewed.
The US is one of the most "powerful" military powers due to their weapons/tools not because they have soldiers that are more physically powerful or numerous than the other armies.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has proven to exert more than 50 Earth weights of force. It takes less than 1 Earth weight of force to destroy a planet.
You and your made-up numbers again. :-/
Originally posted by h1a8
Add the fact that he's a lot faster in battle and has knowledge of pressure points then he wins. He can simply take Terrax's axe from him before Terrax can blink.
Oookayyy, that's your opinion, but I wasn't really discussing that with Stoic. :-/
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Okayyy....In the same issue of Annihilation, Terrax one-shotted a planet. If this is still a "shadow of his former self" then he must have been much more powerful than Superman in his "former self" as not even Superman has shown that he is able to one-shot planets on-panel.
It was also mentioned stated and shown on-panel that Terrax is in full possession of the PC now, this would indicate that he is no longer "stripped of his power by Galactus".
Also, that was a Terrax on an alternate timeline that Rulk killed w/c makes him non-canon and thus not usable for any discussions in this forum.
If Superman smashes the rock, Terrax can simply reconstitute the rock and stand on it. :-/
Also, writers don't have to explain anything. It's your choice to believe what is written on-panel or not. Doesn't make the evidence any less solid.
The axe may be the variable that I was missing, hence why it was so important for Terrax to gain possession of Morgs axe, after getting his destroyed in the conflict of Heralds. Even still it makes it strange that Terrax could not replicate the flying with his original axe. What does this mean?
I made a statement in an earlier post, and said that if this was Terrax with his former power levels, that I believed that the Heralds could or would beat Superman, but even this is arguable. This was not a retraction, on my belief that Superman could win, it just means that he would have to work harder for the win.
You are correct, it was Terrax of an earlier time period, he was at the height of his power, which is even more impressive for Rulk, because Terrax, was arguably more powerful then, than he is now. He was complete back then.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Terrax regained the ability to fly when he took Morg's axe, at the end of The Herald Ordeal.He's been able to fly ever since then.
You're correct. It's the axe, it gives him more power. Is it possible, or even viable that Terrax could be stripped of the axe by Superman, if Superman knew that Terrax would lose power by losing the axe? Rulk was easily able to pry the axe from his hand, as mentioned above.
Originally posted by Stoic
The axe may be the variable that I was missing, hence why it was so important for Terrax to gain possession of Morgs axe, after getting his destroyed in the conflict of Heralds. Even still it makes it strange that Terrax could not replicate the flying with his original axe. What does this mean?I made a statement in an earlier post, and said that if this was Terrax with his former power levels, that I believed that the Heralds could or would beat Superman, but even this is arguable. This was not a retraction, on my belief that Superman could win, it just means that he would have to work harder for the win.
You are correct, it was Terrax of an earlier time period, he was at the height of his power, which is even more impressive for Rulk, because Terrax, was arguably more powerful then, than he is now. He was complete back then.
You're correct. It's the axe, it gives him more power. Is it possible, or even viable that Terrax could be stripped of the axe by Superman, if Superman knew that Terrax would lose power by losing the axe? Rulk was easily able to pry the axe from his hand, as mentioned above.
Well you say that, but although gaining the axe was what allowed him to fly again originally, ever sinec then he's still been able to fly if the axe is taken away. Especially because he lost said axe to Morg when Morg was resurrected, and has had his old axe ever since, yet still regained the ability to fly in every appearance.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Well you say that, but although gaining the axe was what allowed him to fly again originally, ever sinec then he's still been able to fly if the axe is taken away. Especially because he lost said axe to Morg when Morg was resurrected, and has had his old axe ever since, yet still regained the ability to fly in every appearance.
Even if what you say is true, the axe in his hands makes him a deadlier opponent for Superman.
I'm always quick to admit when I am wrong, but with Superman, and his far faster battle speeds, it makes the possibility of Terrax losing his axe very possible. This would also lessen his deadliness by leaps and bounds, when you take into consideration Superman's natural body armor.
My stance on this conflict since learning, and being shown of the retcon done to Terrax has changed. I give the Heralds, a far higher chance of winning. This however has not become a majority opinion in favor of the Heralds, but more of a 50/50 chance for either faction.
Originally posted by Stoic
The axe may be the variable that I was missing, hence why it was so important for Terrax to gain possession of Morgs axe, after getting his destroyed in the conflict of Heralds. Even still it makes it strange that Terrax could not replicate the flying with his original axe. What does this mean?
It means that Terrax got retconned along the way and the time he took Morg's axe, he was actually flying without his weapon. Also, your chronology and interpretation of history is wrong. IIRC, he could already fly even after his axe got destroyed. He just needed Morgs axe as he seems to prefer fighting with an Axe as a weapon.
FYI, his ability to manipulate Earth is a NATURAL ability he had prior to Galactus giving him the PC.
Originally posted by Stoic
I made a statement in an earlier post, and said that if this was Terrax with his former power levels, that I believed that the Heralds could or would beat Superman, but even this is arguable. This was not a retraction, on my belief that Superman could win, it just means that he would have to work harder for the win.
Well then, you seem to have an overly high opinion of Superman. I believe that Firelord could pretty much make Supes work for it (tho I give Supes the win 1v1). 2-on-1 gives the team a healthy majority.
Originally posted by Stoic
You are correct, it was Terrax of an earlier time period, he was at the height of his power, which is even more impressive for Rulk, because Terrax, was arguably more powerful then, than he is now. He was complete back then.
You are wrong. That was Terrax at a LATER time period. IIRC, I think it was hinted on-panel. Also, any alternate timeline character is NOT USABLE as a point of reference in any power level debate as they are all considered non 616-canon.
Also, just to add. The WEAKEST timeline Surfer still managed to beat that guy pretty convincingly.
Originally posted by Stoic
You're correct. It's the axe, it gives him more power. Is it possible, or even viable that Terrax could be stripped of the axe by Superman, if Superman knew that Terrax would lose power by losing the axe? Rulk was easily able to pry the axe from his hand, as mentioned above.
Sigh.
1) Terrax DOESN'T need the axe (as was shown in Annihilation) as the PC is within him. Thus, taking the axe wouldn't "depower" Terrax. Just deprive him of a potent weapon.
2) Even if it did, Superman wouldn't know that much info on the character as it is not common knowledge.
3) Rulk pried it and suckerpunched a non-616 canon Terrax w/c you should really stop referencing here.