Originally posted by PeachNot every quest can be integral to a storyline in an MMO, there are just too many of them. I don't know what you expect from WoW but it is pretty much the best out there in terms of MMOs... Numbers don't lie.
I fail to see how "go kill some arbitrary number of goblins (even though it will have zero effect whatsoever) because they're annoying some farmers" is at all some sort of plot-based reason.
In terms of its story its as bad as any other that at least makes some attempt to include one, and Final Fantasy XI has it beaten in every single area there is with the exception of its PVP combat which the developers purposefully put minimal emphasis on as they wanted FFXI to be about helping each other out rather than acting in competition with one another.
Originally posted by Peach
How far in do you have to get into the game before you reach that point? Because (and I always read all of the quest text so that's not the problem) I never encountered anything more than "go kill ten goblins. Go save the fields from bandits. Kill ten bandits".I hate grind. Hate it. And I've been talked into trying that game far too many times.
Takes a while. The current early world quests are definitely dated compared to the later quests that came with the expansions, which are much more varied and have stronger plots. But compared to other MMO's that were released before WoW, and even most that have come since, the early quests are stronger as far as the lore goes. Some zones are better than others. For instance I love the lore of Duskwood, it's creepy and there are some fun quests to read and some good stories. Other zones are total garbage and boring.
Also it depends on the race you play. All the races have different types of plotting and some are stronger than others in that respect. For instance I like the Human and Undead early level storylines best. Others might like other races' better.
But like I said, with Cataclysm the quests are all being overhauled very deeply. The ones I've played are much more varied and they flow better. The feeling of a grind is all gone from what I've tried in Beta.
You can actually do all of the starter quests for each race with any single race provided its part of the same alliance (as in alliance or horde). For instance I did all of the night elf and shaman starter area quests with my human character (which also happen to be considered some of the best as far as I know; the shaman quests in particular which were part of the Burning Thought expansion), and they did absolutely nothing for me.
Originally posted by BackFire
Takes a while. The current early world quests are definitely dated compared to the later quests that came with the expansions, which are much more varied and have stronger plots. But compared to other MMO's that were released before WoW, and even most that have come since, the early quests are stronger as far as the lore goes. Some zones are better than others. For instance I love the lore of Duskwood, it's creepy and there are some fun quests to read and some good stories. Other zones are total garbage and boring.Also it depends on the race you play. All the races have different types of plotting and some are stronger than others in that respect. For instance I like the Human and Undead early level storylines best. Others might like other races' better.
But like I said, with Cataclysm the quests are all being overhauled very deeply. The ones I've played are much more varied and they flow better. The feeling of a grind is all gone from what I've tried in Beta.
Hmmm. Well, see, I find it a big problem that the content isn't engaging from the start. I don't think I ever made it past like...level 10, if even that, just because I was so damn bored with what I was doing. I don't think it should be that difficult to make the game engaging right away and make it so it immediately draws you in.
Originally posted by Peach
Hmmm. Well, see, I find it a big problem that the content isn't engaging from the start. I don't think I ever made it past like...level 10, if even that, just because I was so damn bored with what I was doing. I don't think it should be that difficult to make the game engaging right away and make it so it immediately draws you in.
That's what they are fixing.
Also they purposefully make the early levels easy because up to level 10 it's basically acting as a tutorial. Every MMO I have ever played does something similar, Guild Wars included - very simple and generic kill and fetch quests early on to avoid overwhelming complete newbies. Wow's early quests are really no worse than that game.
It's not that it's easy - it's that it's boring and not at all fun. I want to get into the plot, not grind mindlessly for hours before having anything interesting to do.
And pretty much everything in GW before hitting the level cap is considered tutorial levels, even though you start missions long before that and are generally pretty involved in the campaign's plot way before level 20 😛
How is doing nothing but killing demons for quests in early Guild Wars content anymore fun than doing the identical thing in WoW? I suppose if you just like the gameplay or the world of GW's more then that's fine, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense.
I don't remember Guild Wars lore being all that special or noticeably better than WoW. It was competent but very standard and generic as far as fantasy MMORPG's go - as is WoW. The major difference is that I felt the early content in Guild Wars was the peak - I liked the lush area you start in and liked some of the storylines, then it simply got worse and boring after the apocalypse that happens at level 6 or whatever - too many zones just looked like desert areas with grey and brown as the main color palette. Where as the plotting and zones in WoW got more intriguing, varied and interesting as you leveled.
How far in did you play, though? Because I've...done everything there is to do in GW now, except for one bit of new content that I cannot beat still and some of the elite missions, but it's most definitely not like that. The only game that really has a lot of desert-type areas is Nightfall, because it's set on a continent based on northern Africa and the Middle East, and even that's not all pure desert. And the plotting definitely gets way more in-depth as you actually play through the game.
And no, the plot isn't something that especially stands out as being amazing, however, I like that the game was heavily focused on playing through a story, more like an offline RPG. And it really doesn't have fetch-and-carry, or "kill ten random things" quests and the few that do exist are directly tied into the plot.
I just don't like anything about WoW. I don't like the gameplay, I don't like the appearance, I don't like persistent areas in games, I despise grind, and I don't like how it takes so long to get even vaguely interesting. It's just not at all fun, and bad in every way to me.
Originally posted by BackFire
Some zones are better than others. For instance I love the lore of Duskwood, it's creepy and there are some fun quests to read and some good stories. Other zones are total garbage and boring.
You said it, Duskwood was a cool zone. The Legend of Stalvan was awesome in particular.
And as it was already said, it's kind of impossible to incorporate every single quest into the plot and still have such an incredible amount of quests like WoW does. It's inevitable that you will end up with quite a few "Kill 10 X and fetch 8 of Y" type of quests that are neither here nor there.
Also, some people here obviously never played EVE Online where they give you literally the same missions(quests) over and over, and over, and over, and over again. At least WoW tries to make them interesting and unique...
Originally posted by Peach
How far in did you play, though? Because I've...done everything there is to do in GW now, except for one bit of new content that I cannot beat still and some of the elite missions, but it's most definitely not like that. The only game that really has a lot of desert-type areas is Nightfall, because it's set on a continent based on northern Africa and the Middle East, and even that's not all pure desert. And the plotting definitely gets way more in-depth as you actually play through the game.And no, the plot isn't something that especially stands out as being amazing, however, I like that the game was heavily focused on playing through a story, more like an offline RPG. And it really doesn't have fetch-and-carry, or "kill ten random things" quests and the few that do exist are directly tied into the plot.
I just don't like anything about WoW. I don't like the gameplay, I don't like the appearance, I don't like persistent areas in games, I despise grind, and I don't like how it takes so long to get even vaguely interesting. It's just not at all fun, and bad in every way to me.
In GW I believe I got to level 12 or so. I stopped because I wanted to change classes but then never really went through with it. And all the zones I was in after the apocalypse were desert or dry levels with a lame color palette that looked boring. The game was fine, though, just never really got into it because of that. I was already too into WoW at that time I guess.
Something you might like about WoW now is that they've taken the phasing aspects of GW and implemented it into some of the newer zones, and they're going to be implementing it into the lower level zones with the next expansion. Thus the world actively changes for the player based on the actions taken by the player, which was something very cool that Guild Wars did.
Originally posted by §P0oONY
You really didn't give WoW a chance Lana, you can get to level 10 in a couple of hours.
At least it is better than FFXI was in that regard - it took me like a week to get to level 5. That game was just terrible.
But really, if I greatly dislike the way the game itself plays, and it's immensely boring to boot and takes a long while to get started, then why would I want to give it more of a chance? Maybe if things were interesting right away I would have been more willing to stick it out, but it wasn't. I really don't think that expecting a game to be interesting right off is a bad thing.
(I don't think GW is perfect in this regard, either - I won't start out characters in Prophecies because I find that game up until about the midway point far too slow, and Ascending and getting your final 30 attribute points is an annoying hassle)
Originally posted by PeachThere are plenty of games that start off slow. Considering that WoW is a game that lasts for days, weeks, months... I think a person can afford a couple of hours to get it going.
At least it is better than FFXI was in that regard - it took me like a week to get to level 5. That game was just terrible.But really, if I greatly dislike the way the game itself plays, and it's immensely boring to boot and takes a long while to get started, then why would I want to give it more of a chance? Maybe if things were interesting right away I would have been more willing to stick it out, but it wasn't. I really don't think that expecting a game to be interesting right off is a bad thing.
(I don't think GW is perfect in this regard, either - I won't start out characters in Prophecies because I find that game up until about the midway point far too slow, and Ascending and getting your final 30 attribute points is an annoying hassle)
I personally got a 14 day trial of WoW, played it for an hour or two and then put it down for about a week. I, like you, didn't get hooked instantly. But when I got into it I ended up playing it for about 6 months. Only stopped because I moved into a new flat and never got the internet sorted. I only reached the mid 50s in level, never even got to experience BC but I seldom found it boring.
WoW isn'i about reaching the level cap,m there is plenty of game long before you reach that, including great PvP options. There is also a couple of new instances every few levels to keep you busy. And regardless of the story I must have done the Scarlet Monastery about 30 times (conservative estimate, as I also solo'd it for fun), simply because it was really fun.
I think it's silly to think any MMORPG is going to be fun straight off the bat... unless you're playing it with a mate.
I almost never play games with other people, and when I do there's very few people that I am willing to play with. I'm really not much of a social gamer; in GW I prefer to play alone with NPCs (which is why I haven't done much of the elite content, the few experiences I've had with pickup groups have turned me off of that entirely).
And I think it's silly to not expect a game to be fun straight off the bat, no matter what genre it is. Also, PvP does not interest me at all, and, as I've said several times, I do not like the way WoW plays. I dislike the gameplay itself. I do not find it fun at all. All of these have added up into it being a game - and a style of game - that I dislike and find very boring.
For what it's worth, it's not just WoW that I dislike for these reasons. I've tried many a traditional MMO (WoW, FFXI, Aion, Ragnarok, etc.) and disliked all of them for those same reasons.