Darth Plagueis Novel

Started by Dr McBeefington9 pages
Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
to be fair, It was pointed out their wills were essentially equal. And he was stronger in the force
I don't have to tell you that if their wills were equal, then it would have been a neverending battle. She proved to be the stronger.

It says in the databank he killed his master after he'd surpassed him.

I'm pretty sure other media say Palpatine surpassed Plagueis as well.


Please provide quotes.

Again, why are you so convinced killing Plagueis in his sleep proves weakness? Are you going to reasonably deny that even a weaker opponent can give a stronger one trouble, and potentially claim a victory? Why run ANY risk you don't have to?

No, but I'm open to both possibilities while you're only open to the one.

Lightsnake Senior Member
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I don't have to tell you that if their wills were equal, then it would have been a neverending battle. She proved to be the stronger.

She proved she had the strength for a last push. Even battles between equals end in someone's victory. It's not a constant state of equilibrium.


Please provide quotes.

I will when the DB is back up


No, but I'm open to both possibilities while you're only open to the one.

I'm glad you're open then.

The issue is, even when Palpatine reflects on the event, he never expresses fear of Plagueis. By the same token, it's indicate dthere was serious tension between Plagueis and Palpatine as Palpatine was beginning to openly defy him. If Plagueis could, why not kill him?

Turr_Phennir Restricted

The DB won't be back up.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
She proved she had the strength for a last push. Even battles between equals end in someone's victory. It's not a constant state of equilibrium.

I will when the DB is back up

I'm glad you're open then.

The issue is, even when Palpatine reflects on the event, he never expresses fear of Plagueis. By the same token, it's indicate dthere was serious tension between Plagueis and Palpatine as Palpatine was beginning to openly defy him. If Plagueis could, why not kill him?

Many reasons why. Perhaps his attempts at eternal life were incomplete, or his midichlorian manipulation. Perhaps he still had use for Palpatine. The point remains though, until we see some proof of Palpatine surpassing Plagueis, both of our arguments work.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Well, here's a quote I could find on the matter:

Sidious would not kill his master, however, until he understood all Plagueis had to teach him and had become powerful enough to defeat him.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well, here's a quote I could find on the matter:

Sidious would not kill his master, however, until he understood all Plagueis had to teach him and had become powerful enough to defeat him.

That doesn't tell us much. Being powerful enough to defeat him doesn't make him his superior, or his equal. You could still be an inferior and win, like killing someone in his sleep. So I guess it's still up for grabs.

Lightsnake Senior Member

So first it's "If he thought he could win in a fight, he wouldn't do it in his sleep."

Then "This doesn't make him stronger even if he could defeat him!"

He said flat out he learned everything he could from Plagueis and could have defeated him, coupled with the facts that Plagueis didn't risk an open confrontation with him, either.

Really, this is proven beyond a reasonable doubt at this juncture.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So first it's "If he thought he could win in a fight, he wouldn't do it in his sleep."

Then "This doesn't make him stronger even if he could defeat him!"

He said flat out he learned everything he could from Plagueis and could have defeated him, coupled with the facts that Plagueis didn't risk an open confrontation with him, either.

Really, this is proven beyond a reasonable doubt at this juncture.


No, you have a tendency to post random selections from texts and claim "beyond a reasonable doubt". Your last paragraph has your usual reaching in hopes of making a valid argument. We do not know if he was more powerful than Plagueis when he killed him. All we know is he took the opportunity when it was there.

Lightsnake Senior Member

DS sees Palpatine kille dPlagueis in his sleep: This means he wasn't strong enough to kill him in a straight fight!

Sees direct quote stating otherwise.

"Still doesn't mean he was stronger!"

Plagueis doesn't kill Palpatine even though the two are nearly coming to a head
"That also doesn't prove anything!"

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
DS sees Palpatine kille dPlagueis in his sleep: This means he wasn't strong enough to kill him in a straight fight!

Sees direct quote stating otherwise.

"Still doesn't mean he was stronger!"

Plagueis doesn't kill Palpatine even though the two are nearly coming to a head
"That also doesn't prove anything!"

LS sees a quote, interprets it the way he wants, screams "beyond a reasonable doubt", and is fully convinced.

Lightsnake Senior Member

I'm highlighting the double standards you've shown here is all.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm highlighting the double standards you've shown here is all.
I'm not sure you understand the meaning of "double standards". The only thing I was guilty of was claiming that Palpatine was definitely weaker, which I have long since recanted in favor of the two theories. What you're doing is desperately trying to make one work by reaching, and calling it fact.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Which of them is called the most powerful Sith in history consistently? Palpatine is the one who's described as having learned all Plagueis had to teach and grew strong enough to defeat him while Plagueis never made any move against him without his supposed perfect apprentice.

It's quite obvious whose supposed to be stronger. Especially when one considers how this order is supposed to work

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Which of them is called the most powerful Sith in history consistently?

How is this even relevant to Palpatine's level of power during Plagueis' reign? This is just horrible, LS.
Palpatine is the one who's described as having learned all Plagueis had to teach and grew strong enough to defeat him while Plagueis never made any move against him without his supposed perfect apprentice.
Obviously Palpatine didn't learn all Plagueis had to teach him since he never achieved eternal life and learned transfer essence only later on. And once again, strong enough to defeat doesn't make him more powerful.

It's quite obvious whose supposed to be stronger. Especially when one considers how this order is supposed to work [/B]
No, the only thing that's obvious is that Palpatine was strong enough to defeat him, nothing more. I'll try and be more civil with you LS but it's kind of hard when I can poke holes in each one of your arguments without breaking so much as a sweat (as opposed to sweating while playing video games, naturally).

Turr_Phennir Restricted

Well that's a pleasant compromise. Let's all take deep, calming breaths before we leap into the fray to slug it out with one another.

There is no emotion, there is peace.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Well that's a pleasant compromise. Let's all take deep, calming breaths before we leap into the fray to slug it out with one another.

There is no emotion, there is peace.


According to you, there is only homosexuality..

Turr_Phennir Restricted

With Neph, yes.

Without Neph, no?

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

You know, you guys could just wait for the book to come out.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

We're going to have to, since Gideon is too much of a failure to get us all an advance copy.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Lol, what a chode.