Originally posted by Q99
Scar's a badass Ishbalan (that is, human) warrior who has an alchemy thing on his arm that lets him kill/blow up whatever he grabs with it.
Honestly there way to much incorrect statements being made about Wolverine here compared to X-23, that I just don't have the time to correct, but here few that caught my eye.
Originally posted by Konton
Seeing as she is his clone with the same physical stats and doesn't have to carry around an adamantium skeleton... she should realistically be faster.
Originally posted by Konton
If we are to go by feats, she beat the training simulation Wolverine partook in quicker than he did when she was around 11.
Actaully if we go by feats wolverine is clearly faster.
And no she dident, let me quote another members reaction to that very statement (he explains it better then I could)
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That is very misleading. It took Wolverine 3 minutes and 21 seconds to track the bear through the forest and kill him... and yet Laura out preformed him 3 minutes and 24 seconds? That doesn't even make sense. It didn't even take Wolverine that long to complete the exercise... and he actually had to hunt the animals down and kill them, unlike Laura. And Wolverine one shot his bear with out getting hit, where as Laura got smacked around like a rag doll... and Wolverine fought five wolves... where as Laura only fought two (and she didn't even kill one of them!). These scientist must have been desperate to keep their funding because they were lying through their teeth.Kyle and Yost, go reread your Barry Windsor-Smith Weapon X TBP! 😠
Oh and this is correct, I even get scans if I must.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
In any case, she has shown to have a healing factor at precisely his level, the speed to and fighting skill to bleed Logan out, the guts to take nearly fatal blows on purpose to pwn Deathstrike, etc.
Wolveirne wasent even fighting back………
She did do that deathstrike incident which was quite impressive.
Originally posted by Q99
What stuff she's done does not indicate a lower speed level though (and rather explicitly indicates at minimum even speed), and if you want to prove lower speed, that's what you need.
Originally posted by Q99
She's not slower than Logan w/ adamantium. It's even possible she might be a little faster, though admittedly that hasn't been demonstrated (IMO she is more agile admittedly, just the way she fights is more acrobatic).I think the 'she's slower' thing is a reach.
No she is not more agile, this has never once been suggested. Becuase some one fights more acrobatics does not make them more agile lol, that absurd. Clint Barton uses more acrobatics on average then wolverine but he certainly not more agile. agility to can used in numerous ways. Wolverine displayed such agility that people thought he was the beast.
You repeatedly keep reaching. Plus educate your self on Wolverine.
Actaully no that does not mean she should be faster. She cloned from him, but she still very different. For starters she a female. They have completely different strength levels, wolverine much stronger.
But not slower.
Actaully if we go by feats wolverine is clearly faster.
If we go by feats she is clearly indicated to be equal on a few occasions. She can match a literal hologram of him move for move, staying within it. If Wolverine's going at full (as he almost certainly was in his Weapon X feral time), and she can match it, that puts her at even.
Also when they fought for real, she also had no problem matching his speed even though he was going at it seriously.
And no she dident, let me quote another members reaction to that very statement (he explains it better then I could)
That's just addressing the incorrect time markers of the test, that doesn't change the fact she literally had to match his exact movements, speed included, to do the hologram training.
How else could someone do so if they were slower? A recording is going to be at 100% of his speed, she had to move the same rate as him.
No it does not indicate a minimum of even speed, that utter BS. Wolverine in uncanny x-men displayed superior speed to her, by catching both her arms with ease when she attacked him. He even stated that she was not in his league.
What, the issues where she was not using her normal fighting style and Wolverine later specifically said she was messing around?
How about the issue where she and him actually fought and he said he was serious, and yet she was still getting as many hits as he was?
We've got more stuff showing they're about equal than not.
She shown to have a good healing factor. Wolverine level? No.
I agree here. Laura was almost killed by being burned to a crisp by Nimrod. Her healing factor seems to be around as fast, but not as good against extreme levels of damage.
You repeatedly keep reaching. Plus educate your self on Wolverine.
I am educated on Logan, and more specifically on every time the two have directly compared. We've got multiple examples that show equal speed, one lone quote from Uncanny that was later said to not be at full doesn't counter that.
The only thing that seems to put her at slower is the one lone specifically-said-by-Logan-later-to-be-faking-it example, and that's opposed by the time they actually fought and the examples of her training.
Originally posted by Q99
But not slower.
Originally posted by Q99
If we go by feats she is clearly indicated to be equal on a few occasions. She can match a literal hologram of him move for move, staying within it. If Wolverine's going at full (as he almost certainly was in his Weapon X feral time), and she can match it, that puts her at even.
No she doesent.
Hologram is not Wolverine. You can’t try and argue that it is impressive as himself. That like me trying to argue Wolverine beating hologram of magneto as if he could beat the actual magneto. It extremely faulty logic.
Actually weapon x wolverine was mind controlled, and had most of his functions being controlled by computers, that fact alone would make him not as fast. No one mind controlled can move at there full speeds. Honestly I can already tell you never read wolverine weapon x and get all your information from x-23 book.
Originally posted by Q99
Also when they fought for real, she also had no problem matching his speed even though he was going at it seriously.
None of those incidents help your case.
Originally posted by Q99
That's just addressing the incorrect time markers of the test, that doesn't change the fact she literally had to match his exact movements, speed included, to do the hologram training.
Originally posted by Q99
How else could someone do so if they were slower? A recording is going to be at 100% of his speed, she had to move the same rate as him.
Originally posted by Q99
What, the issues where she was not using her normal fighting style and Wolverine later specifically said she was messing around?How about the issue where she and him actually fought and he said he was serious, and yet she was still getting as many hits as he was?
We've got more stuff showing they're about equal than not.
Again he wasent fighting back. Honestly how more clear can I get? He attack her once, that hardly potrays her as equal to him.
No we don’t. All you got is your holograms which is not him, and we also know there completely inaccurate.
Originally posted by Q99
I am educated on Logan, and more specifically on every time the two have directly compared. We've got multiple examples that show equal speed, one lone quote from Uncanny that was later said to not be at full doesn't counter that.The only thing that seems to put her at slower is the one lone specifically-said-by-Logan-to-be-faking-it example, and that's opposed by the time they actually fought and the examples of her training.
No you don’t have multibale examples, shit you don’t even have one. You got holograms which are inaccurate and arnt him.
Again prove it fact. Also it two examples, actually three if you add the NC example as well. To your holograms which were proven to be inaccurate. So honestly you got diddly shit.
Hologram is not Wolverine. You can’t try and argue that it is impressive as himself. That like me trying to argue Wolverine beating hologram of magneto as if he could beat the actual magneto. It extremely faulty logic.
It's a recording. It's not a programmed hologram, it's a literal recording.
Are you saying a video of Jesse Owens in a race is slower than he actually was in a race?
Yea, sure, they got some details wrong when compared to the original comic. But what's more likely, writer's/artist error, or it not being intended to be a recording?
Your examples get way, way more off than the number of animals fought.
No it not, because it not him and the record was inaccurate. Which is obvious by the fact what they both did was completely different. She simply fought a bear, he had to atrack one down the fight it which he still achieved in less time. Then she had to fight two wolverines, he had to fight 5. This are huge differences. Your own evidence contradicts what wolverine actually went through. X-23 maker obviously were full of shit.
And it couldn't possibly the artist just getting it wrong?
Btw, nice of you to discount that due to nitpicky reasons, but not discount the example that has actually been said in the comic to be false and that has way more things wrong with it.
Really when was this? One fight they had Wolverien dominated her with his skill. Another fight they had Wolverine easily caught both her arms with ease. Oh and the third fight Wolverine was not even fighting back.
Target X. Definitely is serious about this. Next page, leap at each other. Next, even damage. Then she attacks him some more.
If you're saying that's "not fighting back," you're wrong.
Are either of those two fights in something other than Uncanny X-men? Because that's been retconned away with her character it didn't fit with the others so bad, and was specifically said by Logan to not be her for real, but rather just faking.
Because if you're relying entirely on obviously out-of-character examples where someone neither looks, acts, nor fights like normal, maybe you should re-evaluate your position.
Heck, you're going as far to discount ones that are explicit because they have some minor errors and don't match up exactly with the original Weapon X test, while insisted on ones that don't have a single thing right about them are true.
Plus, there's more of the good ones.
C'mon. Minority of instances, massively out-of-character in them, vs more instances of her written by her creators, and Logan himself badmouthing the prior encounters? Openly using retconned fights over official ones?
This isn't hard, you're being super nitpicky to one side and super generous on larger problems to the other. What ones are right and what ones are not is pretty clear.
Though I want to make this known that Wolverine is clearly the faster of the two. She still in the same speed range. She can deffiently keep up with his combat speed. Just wanted to clarify that, have a feeling people may have taken my statements as saying he to fast for her to keep up, which is deffiently not the case.
Originally posted by Q99
It's a recording. It's not a programmed hologram, it's a literal recording.Are you saying a video of Jesse Owens in a race is slower than he actually was in a race?
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, sure, they got some details wrong when compared to the original comic. But what's more likely, writer's/artist error, or it not being intended to be a recording?
Originally posted by Q99
Your examples get way, way more off than the number of animals fought.
Originally posted by Q99
And it couldn't possibly the artist just getting it wrong?
No because the entire incident is complete off. The fight went down 100% differently and had far more animals.
Originally posted by Q99
Btw, nice of you to discount that due to nitpicky reasons, but not discount the example that has actually been said in the comic to be false and that has way more things wrong with it.
The rest of this statement I have no idea what the **** your talking about.
Originally posted by Q99
Target X. Definitely is serious about this. Next page, leap at each other. Next, even damage. Then she attacks him some more.
If you're saying that's "not fighting back," you're wrong.
No I am not, you took that scan out of context, he never wished to fight her. He attacked her onces, even then he was not trying to kill her,but make her listen. She on the other hand was trying to kill him and was going all out. Holding back wolverine against all out x-23 is the best evidences you got?
Here actually what happened.
Originally posted by Q99
Are either of those two fights in something other than Uncanny X-men? Because that's been retconned away with her character it didn't fit with the others so bad, and was specifically said by Logan to not be her for real, but rather just faking.Because if you're relying entirely on obviously out-of-character examples where someone neither looks, acts, nor fights like normal, maybe you should re-evaluate your position.
They don’t have to be, it cannon comic. Prove it all be reconnt never to have happen. Come on lets see prove.
Not to mention she acted the same as always and fought the same, not sure how you could say she fought any differently.
Originally posted by Q99Heck, you're going as far to discount ones that are explicit because they have some minor errors and don't match up exactly with the original Weapon X test, while insisted on ones that don't have a single thing right about them are true.
Minor? The amount of animals is off, the time is completely wrong, how the event went down is completely wrong, **** the entire objective is completely wrong. It not minor, this is the entire point of the event and every detail in it is completely wrong. All you got is baseless hyperbole that we already know is utter bullshit. Honestly go read Wolverine Weapon X, becuase I dam well know you havent and yet you continue to argue it, which is beyond me how you could argue about an event uve never even read.
No I am not, you took that scan out of context, he never wished to fight her. He attacked her onces, even then he was not trying to kill her,but make her listen.
Yea, he did attack her and was pretty clearly taking things seriously at that point and all that managed to do was even things up, he didn't seem to have a speed advantage there. We can't leave out that part of the fight just because he wasn't fighting back through the whole thing, he did try fighting back for real there.
Ditto when he was dodging at full and still got tagged.
They don’t have to be, it cannon comic. Prove it all be reconnt never to have happen. Come on lets see prove.
It sorta-kinda happened, but here's what Logan said about that run: "No more growling and no more BS! You have to come back and try for real." (emphasis his) in NXM 20.
C'mon, it flies directly in the face of 90% of her appearances and was obviously written with little respect for the character's development and has had nothing else follow up on using that version of her. I can't take an argument that relies on it seriously.
Not to mention she acted the same as always and fought the same, not sure how you could say she fought any differently.
WTH? The Uncanny run had her growly, aggressive, and acting like a cheap Logan knock off. She's normally clinical, laconic, and non-growly with a very different character. Different costumes, different attitude (heck, different personality), to the point where the creators specifically had Logan call it all out as fake when they wrote her.
I really get the impression you are not familiar with the majority of X-23's stuff.
Minor? The amount of animals is off, the time is completely wrong, how the event went down is completely wrong, **** the entire objective is completely wrong.
So maybe they're working off a different recording of Wolverine's training.
The point is, it's according to the comic a Weapon X training recording of Wolverine. Even when she leaves it, it keeps on fighting.
Heck, maybe they didn't have as many animals to make it 'easy mode' for her, figuring she wouldn't have the endurance to take as many on at her age as the adult Logan did. The recording still officially was a recording of Logan in a training fight.
According to that comic, it was Weapon X training footage, period.
Originally posted by Q99
I will note his preference for severing limbs in a single blow.Also, here's a running speed example of his rush, 1:50 in until 4 min or so.
The fighters he faces are pretty badass.
Also in the video I just link it has a fighter staying on his blind side as much as possible (while the eyepatch is on, the Ultimate Eye doesn't serve as a normal eye too well, though he still gets it's benefits from the normal eye. Ditch the patch and then that's not as much of an issue).
If someone's out of sight, the eye power is, obviously, less helpful.
Originally posted by Q99
Scar's a badass Ishbalan (that is, human) warrior who has an alchemy thing on his arm that lets him kill/blow up whatever he grabs with it.
