Can Zom absorb Arioch and go into the final Shuma fight with an even greater power then Strange did? Hmm...
Why wouldn't Zom be able to absorb/devour Arioch? He's a demon after all.
If Strange could do it, why not Zom?
Strange made a fool out of Arioch and Gorath in their own dimensions. He got no where fighting Zom even with the Ancient One's power added to his own.
Strange was about to be killed by Zom till the LT made his cameo.
Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
Make it 616 and Zom easily beats Shuma Gorath. Now what if Zom did make Dr. Strange's journey to Shuma's realm? Wouldn't he have had to pass through Arioch first? Can Zom absorb Arioch and go into the final Shuma fight with an even greater power then Strange did? Hmm...
Even chained he needed Eternity's help to imprison Zom!
And at least we have Zom on panel melting Umar's spells and causing her to flee, while Strange and the Ancient One were powerless before her. That's more than Arioch did. He was tricked by a simple freaking illusion for god's sake!
Fact : Strange and the Ancient One never defeated Zom
Fact : Strange was about to die at Zom's hand until the LT showed up
Fact : Strange handed Arioch his ass in his own realm
Fact : Strange killed Shuma in his own realm
Fact : Strange never defeated, let alone killed, Zom
Originally posted by zopzop
Even chained he needed Eternity's help to imprison Zom!And at least we have Zom on panel melting Umar's spells and causing her to flee, while Strange and the Ancient One were powerless before her. That's more than Arioch did. He was tricked by a simple freaking illusion for god's sake!
Fact : Strange and the Ancient One never defeated Zom
Fact : Strange was about to die at Zom's hand until the LT showed up
Fact : Strange handed Arioch his ass in his own realm
Fact : Strange killed Shuma in his own realm
Fact : Strange never defeated, let alone killed, Zom
The fact that Zom was unable to kill Strange in that brief period was proof enough that he's overrated as crap. LOL at you thinking the massive prep Strange needed against Shuma is comparable. ****ing Zom wasn't able to kill a normal Doctor Strange. What does that tell you? OH, and he got trapped in a vase lol
Originally posted by CortSether
The fact that Zom was unable to kill Strange in that brief period was proof enough that he's overrated as crap. LOL at you thinking the massive prep Strange needed against Shuma is comparable. ****ing Zom wasn't able to kill a normal Doctor Strange. What does that tell you? OH, and he got trapped in a vase lol
LOL that's AFTER the LT showed up and beat him down. The LT didn't even bother to make a cameo in the Strange/Shuma fight.
Laugh all you want but Strange/Ancient One was about to be killed by Zom till LT shazamed himself in.
Strange KILLED Gorath in his own realm with a flaming beach ball.
See the difference? You probably don't but I'm bored arguing the same points over and over.
Originally posted by CortSether
Arioch's few panel battle with Strange proved far more than the vague hyperbole coming from Zom and how he was put in chains (by Dormammu no less)
Originally posted by King Kandy
The vague hyperbole of Arioch telling Strange about his UNLIMITED POWER! and doing shit-all in terms of actually defeating him, then getting drained, does in fact prove... absolutely nothing. He did a worse job fighting Strange than Zom did. At least Strange could defeat Arioch, he didn't have the tiniest chance at beating Zom.
It's amazing that you cannot smell the massive plot device in Strange's battle with Arioch. What we do know is that Arioch fused with Strange was so powerful that in the battle with Shuma it would have destroyed all the netherrealms in existence from Shuma's realm dimensions away from anywhere else.
Originally posted by zopzop
LOL that's AFTER the LT showed up and beat him down. The LT didn't even bother to make a cameo in the Strange/Shuma fight.Laugh all you want but Strange/Ancient One was about to be killed by Zom till LT shazamed himself in.
Strange KILLED Gorath in his own realm with a flaming beach ball.
See the difference? You probably don't but I'm bored arguing the same points over and over.
So you're arguing that because the size of Shuma-Gorath's replica was small that automatically means the yield behind it was low? 🙄 Strange used Shuma's own magic against it. It was Shuma's energy that defeated it and it didn't even kill Shuma in the long run so shush.
It's amazing how overrated Zom is on this forum, and it's only on KMC where this Zom hype is still in effect and it's truly mind boggling. I constantly read "Not even Eternity could stop Zom!". All based on vague hyperbole and not supported in the least. Hell, Eternity and Zom never even appeared in the same comic issue. All anyone goes by is Umar's vague telling of events that took place in the past. Which, you know, she never even said that Eternity couldn't stop Zom. All she said was that Dormammu and Eternity both imprisoned him. Nowhere is it said that they even battled. I find it hard to believe that they would battle anyway, especially considering that regular Doc Strange, not amped in the least, was stalemating Zom, and then when he got a bit of the Ancient One's power (the same Ancient One that Shuma was wtfpwning) he made a laughing stock out of Zom and ripped off his hair.
So what are the facts?
At one point in time Zom was imprisoned by Eternity
Dormammu bound Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage (before Eternity imprisoned him)
Then Zom says, "Even Dormammu, even Eternity himself could not stop Zom from ..." Okay...from what exactly?
Then Zom gets sent packing
And as a testament to Zom's supposedly great power, Strange uses it to fight Hulk and gets godstomped in the end (And I don't care if it wasn't all of Zom's power, because if he's supposedly so powerful to be > Eternity then even the smallest fraction of his power should have no problem in KOing Hulk.
Zom is nothing to Shuma-Gorath.
The slightest fraction of Zom's power turned a regular human being (Strange couldn't cast magic at the time) with some magic equipment into a being who was easily wrecking WWH over and over again until he chose to shut down the fight. WWH won because Dr. Strange shut down and was a sitting duck. That's pretty amazing if you ask me. A tiny sliver of power putting any joe blo over WWH shouldn't be trivialized. That version of Strange/Zom could have challenged any herald level hero.
Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
The slightest fraction of Zom's power turned a regular human being (Strange couldn't cast magic at the time) with some magic equipment into a being who was easily wrecking WWH over and over again until he chose to shut down the fight. WWH won because Dr. Strange shut down and was a sitting duck. That's pretty amazing if you ask me. A tiny sliver of power putting any joe blo over WWH shouldn't be trivialized. That version of Strange/Zom could have challenged any herald level hero.
Herald level? Not even.
Originally posted by CortSether
It's amazing that you cannot smell the massive plot device in Strange's battle with Arioch. What we do know is that Arioch fused with Strange was so powerful that in the battle with Shuma it would have destroyed all the netherrealms in existence from Shuma's realm dimensions away from anywhere else.
Oh please. How many times has that "destruction of lower realms" argument been used before? Odin/Seth, Galactus/Mephisto, Agamotto/Galactus, Mephisto/Satannish, etc... Everytime magical beings throw down it affects other dimensions. It didn't start or end with Shuma/Strange.
So you're arguing that because the size of Shuma-Gorath's replica was small that automatically means the yield behind it was low? 🙄 Strange used Shuma's own magic against it. It was Shuma's energy that defeated it and it didn't even kill Shuma in the long run so shush.
No that's not what I'm arguing. The fact that Strange absorbed Arioch with ease when he's supposed to be all powerful, then going on WTFPWNing Gorath in his own realm in the stupidest way imaginable. He literally hurled a flaming ball at him. Then Gorath died.
The LT didn't even have to make an appearance it was so beneath him.
It's amazing how overrated Zom is on this forum, and it's only on KMC where this Zom hype is still in effect and it's truly mind boggling. I constantly read "Not even Eternity could stop Zom!". All based on vague hyperbole and not supported in the least. Hell, Eternity and Zom never even appeared in the same comic issue. All anyone goes by is Umar's vague telling of events that took place in the past. Which, you know, she never even said that Eternity couldn't stop Zom. All she said was that Dormammu and Eternity both imprisoned him. Nowhere is it said that they even battled. I find it hard to believe that they would battle anyway, especially considering that regular Doc Strange, not amped in the least, was stalemating Zom, and then when he got a bit of the Ancient One's power (the same Ancient One that Shuma was wtfpwning) he made a laughing stock out of Zom and ripped off his hair.So what are the facts?
At one point in time Zom was imprisoned by Eternity
Dormammu bound Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage (before Eternity imprisoned him)
Then Zom says, "Even Dormammu, even Eternity himself could not stop Zom from ..." Okay...from what exactly?
Then Zom gets sent packing
Yes what are the "facts"?
Fact : Somehow, somewhere, Dormammu got the Chains of Living Bondage on Zom's hands
Fact : Even so bound, his power dwarfed Dormammu's
Fact : Eternity had to step in and imprison him (not even destroy him)
Fact : Once released, Strange/Ancient One or Umar couldn't stop him
Fact : Umar stated that if those manacles come off, it's game over (even with them on he was melting her spells with ease)
Fact : He started to break his chains (but not the manacles yet) before the LT arrived
Fact : He was about to kill Strange/Ancient One before LT arrived\
Fact : The LT tried to kill him, but Zom survived as a sliver of his former power and can reform into the full Zom if given a chance
Fact : Strange bested Arioch with ease in his own dimension
Fact : Strange killed Gorath in his own dimension
See the HUGE difference?
And as a testament to Zom's supposedly great power, Strange uses it to fight Hulk and gets godstomped in the end (And I don't care if it wasn't all of Zom's power, because if he's supposedly so powerful to be > Eternity then even the smallest fraction of his power should have no problem in KOing Hulk.
More BS, there was even a quote from the writer of the whole WWH story arc stating Strange was merely channelling a fraction of Zom's power, that's the only reason the planet was still on it's axis.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=130244&highlight=war+room
In Strange's defense, he didn't release Zom in the flesh the way he did back in the day -- instead Strange channeled Zom's power through his own body. That's probably one of the reasons the Earth remains on its axis. (For now, anyway...)
Zom is nothing to Shuma-Gorath.
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep through the night.
Originally posted by zopzop
Oh please. How many times has that "destruction of lower realms" argument been used before? Odin/Seth, Galactus/Mephisto, Agamotto/Galactus, Mephisto/Satannish, etc... Everytime magical beings throw down it affects other dimensions. It didn't start or end with Shuma/Strange.Just mentioning it because you have some weird hate for the Shuma-Gorath character and continuously try to downplay it yet at the same time you massively overrate Zom...a guy who did absolutely nothing.
No that's not what I'm arguing. The fact that Strange absorbed Arioch with ease when he's supposed to be all powerful, then going on WTFPWNing Gorath in his own realm in the stupidest way imaginable. He literally hurled a flaming ball at him. Then Gorath died.
Again, only you can't smell the massive PIS used with Arioch. Fact is, Arioch was an infinite and made of sufficient power to bust galaxies by his presence. And again, it was a flaming replica made of Shuma-Gorath's energy. You're arguing its power based on its size/shape. And it wasn't exactly a WTFPWN as you make it, considering Strange had to murder his ego to prevent Gorath from consuming him. Shuma survived but an aspect of Strange was murdered. Even still, it's lolworthy how you're trying to make it as if it was Strange the mortal who did this. It's even said explicitly during their battle that their was hardly any aspect of Doctor Strange left and that he was a God at that point.
The LT didn't even have to make an appearance it was so beneath him
LOL at you thinking the Living Tribunal appeared because he was remotely concerned about Zom's "power" at all.
Fact : Somehow, somewhere, Dormammu got the Chains of Living Bondage on Zom's hands
Makes Zom look very bad. Dormammu imprisoned Zom. How embarrassing.
Fact : Even so bound, his power dwarfed Dormammu's
Obviously not by much because Dormammu was able to bind Zom. And Shuma's power dwarfs Dormammu's a great deal so what's your point?
Fact : Eternity had to step in and imprison him (not even destroy him)
It isn't even said that they battled. Quit trying to make it like Eternity's involvement was such a huge deal lol
Fact : Once released, Strange/Ancient One or Umar couldn't stop him
Nobody could stop Shuma's return to Earth and Strange had to murder the Ancient One who succumbed to Shuma's power instantly.
Fact : Umar stated that if those manacles come off, it's game over (even with them on he was melting her spells with ease)
So because Umar couldn't stop Zom that means he's beyond Eternity now?
😆Fact : He started to break his chains (but not the manacles yet) before the LT arrived
After all those years he's finally able to almost break his chains put on him by Dormammu. Oh yea, super impressive.
Fact : He was about to kill Strange/Ancient One before LT arrived\
Conjecture, conjecture, conjecture. Stop posting.
Fact : The LT tried to kill him, but Zom survived as a sliver of his former power and can reform into the full Zom if given a chance
The Living Tribunal never tried to kill Zom. He appeared, Zom shat himself, LT waved his hand and Zom went bye bye.
Fact : Strange bested Arioch with ease in his own dimension
Again, only you can't smell the massive PIS.
Fact : Strange killed Gorath in his own dimension
It wasn't Strange the mortal. It was Strange/Arioch the God who already had massive prep, magical backing from The Vishanti and Cyttorak, and had already started turning into Shuma-Gorath in the process. I love how desperate you are to downplay Shuma.
See the HUGE difference?
Yea, the huge difference is that Shuma-Gorath actually has things to back up its power whereas Zom...oh yea, he was put in chains by Dormammu and stalemated a regular Doctor Strange 😆
More BS, there was even a quote from the writer of the whole WWH story arc stating Strange was merely channelling a fraction of Zom's power, that's the only reason the planet was still on it's axis.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=130244&highlight=war+room
Because when all of Zom was on earth previously the Earth wasn't on its axis anymore right? 💃
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep through the night.
😆 Quit being so butthurt. Zom's nothing special.
Originally posted by CortSether
😆 Quit being so butthurt. Zom's nothing special.
You've brought nothing to this discussion that proves Gorath is anything more than an over-rated Cthulhu clone.
Strange, and even some un-named shaman working for Crom, have bested Gorath. Strange killed both he and his lieutenant in their own realms where they are supposedly all powerful.
You can call it PIS, I'd agree if it happens once, but twice?
Strange never beat Zom. Strange was about to be killed by Zom. The LT never bothered with Gorath. The LT himself was needed to destroy Zom. Zom survived the LT's wrath.
You can keep banging your head against the wall trying to ignore these facts but they won't go away.
Originally posted by zopzop💃
You've brought nothing to this discussion that proves Gorath is anything more than an over-rated Cthulhu clone.I've already proved he's more powerful than Zom. That's all that needed to be done. I'm not making claims that he's a top-tier in Marvel, simply that he's superior to Zom.
Strange, and even some un-named shaman working for Crom, have bested Gorath. Strange killed both he and his lieutenant in their own realms where they are supposedly all powerful.
Gorath in Conan was written far differently than Shuma-Gorath as written by Steve Englehart. Hell they even looked entirely different. You can't even compare the two. Besides, nothing in Crom effected Marvel continuity. Marvel only recognizes it because they published Conan for a while.
You can call it PIS, I'd agree if it happens once, but twice?
What happened twice? The only PIS instance was Strange forcing an infinitely more powerful entity to merge with him since, I donno, he's never been able to do that before or after that instance.
Strange never beat Zom. Strange was about to be killed by Zom.
Zom was stalemating with Strange and never was it shown that Strange was about to die. Quit making up stories.
The LT never bothered with Gorath.
Sise-Neg had dispatched Shuma beforehand. Also, Shuma-Gorath was never trying to destroy earth, just rule it. Zom was trying to destroy earth. Big difference.
The LT himself was needed to destroy Zom.
Needed? No. Not even close.
Zom survived the LT's wrath.
What's there to survive? He was teleported to a different universe, he was never attacked. He would have been completely annihilated had LT bothered attacking him.
You can keep banging your head against the wall trying to ignore these facts but they won't go away.
Facts are different from your false bologna.
Originally posted by CortSether
💃
Incredible. Even after stating what happened on panel almost word for word you still live in a little bubble unreachable by facts.
You can believe what you want at this point. But anyone who cares to get the issues mentioned can see for themselves.
Gorath was beaten and bound up by a nameless shaman working for Crom. This is stated in his official bio from Marvel. Galan007 even posted it.
Gorath's "all powerful" lieutenant was beaten and absorbed by Strange.
Gorath was beaten and then killed by Strange in his own realm where he is supposedly omnipotent.
I believe Strange handed Gorath his ass again off panel recently too.
Strange never beat Zom.
Strange was about to be killed by Zom till the LT showed up.
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That's all there is to it.
