Originally posted by zopzopbori is odins grand father
@ColossusI don't think it was ever really explained. Just that he was a young/new God that handed Gorath his ass.
Other Gods from this era include Mitra, Asura, Bori, and a few more I'm not recalling.
Crom, Set (the Elder God who continued to have worshipers), Mitra, and one other I think Asura, were the major Gods of this era 18-12000 BCE.
also wasnt it stated in the conan that the elder gods banished shuma gorath and the great old ones?
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]^ Well, Crom led a shaman to 3 iron clad books, with which the shaman used to imprison Shuma. But I don't recall it ever being stated that Crom actually created those books.
So, according to the Official Handbook entry, it didn't even take a God to own him, just a "shaman and 3 iron clad books"? That's even more sad.
Kind of puts Strange's asskicking of Gorath into perspective. It wasn't PIS it was business as usual for Gorath.
Regardless, Shuma's imprisonment in Conan is canon. It was even mentioned in his most recent OHOTMU bio:
Huh? It's canon in mainstream Marvel, that's all that counts.
Originally posted by zopzopWhat the?
So, according to the Official Handbook entry, it didn't even take a God to own him, just a "shaman and 3 iron clad books"? That's even more sad.
The iron clad books Crom led the shaman to were meant to both imprison and awaken Shuma -- that was/is their main purpose (they are ever referred to as 'the iron bound books of Shuma Gorath'😉... Hell, by your logic it's a low showing for Spectre any time he's gotten owned by the Spear of Destiny.
srsly
Originally posted by zopzopYeah, no shit. That's what I just pointed out by posting Shuma's OHOTMU entry. srsly
Huh? It's canon in mainstream Marvel, that's all that counts.
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]What the?The iron clad books Crom led the shaman to were meant to both imprison and awaken Shuma -- that was/is their main purpose (they are ever referred to as 'the iron bound books of Shuma Gorath'😉... Hell, by your logic it's a low showing for Spectre any time he's gotten owned by the Spear of Destiny.
srsly
The point was, it just took a sorcerer with the right spell and his ass was owned. So Strange owning him, even in his own dimension, isn't uber PIS.
Yeah, no shit. That's what I just pointed out by posting Shuma's OHOTMU entry. srsly
You need to chillax, it's not that serious.
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]No, it took a shaman reading from books made to imprison Shuma, to imprison Shuma.
Who made those books? And my point still stands, magicians pwning Gorath in this universe or his own, isn't PIS. There's precedent.
Your unsubstantiated badgering is laughable at this point.
Like I said, chillax.
Originally posted by zopzop
Who made those books? And my point still stands, magicians pwning Gorath in this universe or his own, isn't PIS. There's precedent.Like I said, chillax.
It's funny how you cling to the idea that Shuma-Gorath being trapped due to the Iron Bound Books automatically make Shuma weak. How about you explain the mystical vase of uber power that Zom couldn't get out of？ 😆
Originally posted by CortSether
It's funny how you cling to the idea that Shuma-Gorath being trapped due to the Iron Bound Books automatically make Shuma weak. How about you explain the mystical vase of uber power that Zom couldn't get out of？ 😆
Chains of Living Bondage + Dormammu + Eternity + Amphora VS Nameless Neanderthal Shaman + Iron Bound Books.
See a difference? 🙄
Originally posted by zopzop
Chains of Living Bondage + Dormammu + Eternity + Amphora VS Nameless Neanderthal Shaman + Iron Bound Books.See a difference? 🙄
More like Dormammu put Zom in chains before Eternity was even involved. Doesn't matter who put Zom in a vase...he was still stuck in a vase. And he was stalemating a regular Doc Strange 😄
The Iron Bound Books have magic from Crom. That's why the mountain that enveloped Shuma was called 'Mt. Crom'.
Originally posted by CortSether
[B]More like Dormammu put Zom in chains before Eternity was even involved. Doesn't matter who put Zom in a vase...he was still stuck in a vase. And he was stalemating a regular Doc Strange 😄
CHAINED he was "stalemating" (aka almost killed, see the scan) Strange + Ancient One. Even chained he was too much for Dormammu (we saw how he handled his sister). Even chained Eternity couldn't kill him and had to imprison him in the amphora in a dimension beyond all time and space.
Gorath got killed by Strange in his own realm where he's omnipotent. 😮
The Iron Bound Books have magic from Crom. That's why the mountain that enveloped Shuma was called 'Mt. Crom'.
You have proof Crom created those books or empowered them? Because if no, Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman. If yes, Gorath got owned by an Earth God. Either way it's sad. Even more embarrassing Gorath was trapped in a freakin' mountain 😮, Zom was so dangerous he was exiled in a dimension beyond known reality by the personification of our universe. 😈
Saying "Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman", without mentioning how the shaman was able to do so, is utterly ridiculous. Again, the iron-bound books of Shuma Gorath were designed to both bind and free him. That's why Conan merely had to throw said books at Shuma for him to vanish.
Getting beaten by a weakness that is specific to your character =/= a "low showing". For instance: Superman getting beaten by kryptonite isn't a low showing for him. Spectre getting beaten by the Spear of Destiny isn't a low showing for him.... Shuma getting beaten by the iron bound books isn't a low showing for him.
Originally posted by zopzop
CHAINED he was "stalemating" (aka almost killed, see the scan) Strange + Ancient One. Even chained he was too much for Dormammu (we saw how he handled his sister). Even chained Eternity couldn't kill him and had to imprison him in the amphora in a dimension beyond all time and space.Gorath got killed by Strange in his own realm where he's omnipotent. 😮
You have proof Crom created those books or empowered them? Because if no, Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman. If yes, Gorath got owned by an Earth God. Either way it's sad. Even more embarrassing Gorath was trapped in a freakin' mountain 😮, Zom was so dangerous he was exiled in a dimension beyond known reality by the personification of our universe. 😈
Zom not being able to use both his hands entirely freely prevented him from killing a single sorcerer...yea, he's not that great. Who's to say Eternity couldn't kill him? Nothing is even alluded to them even battling. Dormammu could have just put Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage and Eternity just decided to imprison him. If Zom can't even kill a normal Doctor Strange then I find it incredibly far fetched to believe he'd be a match for Eternity, regardless if he could use both his hands entirely or not.
By the way, Strange didn't kill Shuma-Gorath in its realm. The battle between Strange/Arioch and Shuma-Gorath was a good part metaphorical. Strange/Arioch was turning into Shuma-Gorath itself and was therefore able to wield the awesome power Shuma-Gorath generated. The metaphorical battle comes into play with Strange's self-sacrifice from the beginning of his journey all the way to the end when he decided to dedicate every aspect of himself into Shiva, the destroyer. This showed how committed he was to saving the earth from Shuma's cruelty and how he went from doubting himself for becoming a murderer (killing the Ancient One) to entirely embracing his evil nature that he was corrupted with. Strange/Arioch had started to become Shuma-Gorath and wielded Shuma's awesome power. He became a monster to defeat a monster. Arioch's energy gave Strange that boost but it wasn't what let him destroy Shuma. In fact, he hadn't even harmed Shuma until Shuma struck him and started forcing Strange/Arioch to change into a Shuma-Gorath.It was his becoming Shuma-Gorath in all aspects that enabled him to defeat the Lord of Chaos within its realm. Shuma-Gorath even foreshadows it by quoting Friedrich Nietzsche "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself". He became a separate Shuma-Gorath within the realm, and after the battle was over the apparently destroyed Shuma-Gorath would have taken over Strange's ego had he not killed himself. In terms of power it was as if Shuma-Gorath defeated itself.
I believe Galan already addressed your whole Crom issue.
Originally posted by Galan007
[B]Saying "Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman", without mentioning how the shaman was able to do so, is utterly ridiculous. Again, the iron-bound books of Shuma Gorath were designed to both bind and free him. That's why Conan merely had to throw said books at Shuma for him to vanish.
Who created those books? If it was Crom, he got owned by an Earth bound deity.
Getting beaten by a weakness that is specific to your character =/= a "low showing". For instance: Superman getting beaten by kryptonite isn't a low showing for him. Spectre getting beaten by the Spear of Destiny isn't a low showing for him.... Shuma getting beaten by the iron bound books isn't a low showing for him.
Again till we know who created the books, we can't say whether it was a low showing or not. So far we know he got beat by an unnamed shaman using "Iron Bound Books". Which is pathetic.
Originally posted by CortSether
[B]Zom not being able to use both his hands entirely freely prevented him from killing a single sorcerer...yea, he's not that great. Who's to say Eternity couldn't kill him? Nothing is even alluded to them even battling. Dormammu could have just put Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage and Eternity just decided to imprison him. If Zom can't even kill a normal Doctor Strange then I find it incredibly far fetched to believe he'd be a match for Eternity, regardless if he could use both his hands entirely or not.
Why imprison if you had the power to kill it? Imprisoning it in the first place, instead of allowing it to roam free, is a sign that it was considered dangerous enough not to be allowed to do it's own thing.
It was Strange + Ancient One, the two most powerful earth bound sorcerers. And I even provided you the scan showing Strange down and stunned, recovering "slowly", wondering why Zom didn't finish the attack.
Meanwhile Arioch and Gorath got their asses kicked by Strange in their own realms, not bound or handicapped in any way.
By the way, Strange didn't kill Shuma-Gorath in its realm. The battle between Strange/Arioch and Shuma-Gorath was a good part metaphorical. Strange/Arioch was turning into Shuma-Gorath itself and was therefore able to wield the awesome power Shuma-Gorath generated. The metaphorical battle comes into play with Strange's self-sacrifice from the beginning of his journey all the way to the end when he decided to dedicate every aspect of himself into Shiva, the destroyer. This showed how committed he was to saving the earth from Shuma's cruelty and how he went from doubting himself for becoming a murderer (killing the Ancient One) to entirely embracing his evil nature that he was corrupted with. Strange/Arioch had started to become Shuma-Gorath and wielded Shuma's awesome power. He became a monster to defeat a monster. Arioch's energy gave Strange that boost but it wasn't what let him destroy Shuma. In fact, he hadn't even harmed Shuma until Shuma struck him and started forcing Strange/Arioch to change into a Shuma-Gorath.It was his becoming Shuma-Gorath in all aspects that enabled him to defeat the Lord of Chaos within its realm. Shuma-Gorath even foreshadows it by quoting Friedrich Nietzsche "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself". He became a separate Shuma-Gorath within the realm, and after the battle was over the apparently destroyed Shuma-Gorath would have taken over Strange's ego had he not killed himself. In terms of power it was as if Shuma-Gorath defeated itself.I believe Galan already addressed your whole Crom issue.
Galan addressed nothing. No one knows who made those books, it could have been Crom or some human sorcerer. Either way, it's humiliating.
And keep beating around the bush, you know "omnipotent" Gorath got his teeth kicked in by Strange, immediately after Strange *****-slapped his "all powerful" lieutenant.
Strange, Strange/Ancient One NEVER defeated Zom. You understand this right?
Originally posted by zopzop🙄 I give up. There is honestly no getting through to you.
Who created those books? If it was Crom, he got owned by an Earth bound deity.Again till we know who created the books, we can't say whether it was a low showing or not. So far we know he got beat by an unnamed shaman using "Iron Bound Books". Which is pathetic.
