Originally posted by SamZED
Daredevil and Bullseye were said to have superhuman speed? TBH its the first time I hear it. Pretty sure they were said to be peak humans.My point is - the line between low superhumans and peak humans is so small it isnt worth mentioning. See Cap can run a mile in a minute so he can be concidered a super human while Elektra who cuts bullets in half with her sais all the time shouldnt? That's my point. Batman or Elektra or any other peak human dodging bullets after they're fired instead of just dodging the aim isnt something out of line. Trained peak humans simply can do that in comix. You said Batman cant dodge bullets because that'd mean he's super human. But being able to dodge bullets doesnt define super human in comicbooks. So the speed difference between guys like Bullseye and Green Arrow (if there's any at all) could be tiny. The fact that one of them is said to be a low level "super human" and the other isnt makes little difference.
Agreed BE and DD have heightened awareness that allows bullet time. Not enhanced Speed and Agility.
Originally posted by SamZED
Daredevil and Bullseye were said to have superhuman speed? TBH its the first time I hear it. Pretty sure they were said to be peak humans.My point is - the line between low superhumans and peak humans is so small it isnt worth mentioning. See Cap can run a mile in a minute so he can be concidered a super human while Elektra who cuts bullets in half with her sais all the time shouldnt? That's my point. Batman or Elektra or any other peak human dodging bullets after they're fired instead of just dodging the aim isnt something out of line. Trained peak humans simply can do that in comix. You said Batman cant dodge bullets because that'd mean he's super human. But being able to dodge bullets doesnt define super human in comicbooks. So the speed difference between guys like Bullseye and Green Arrow (if there's any at all) could be tiny. The fact that one of them is said to be a low level "super human" and the other isnt makes little difference.
You aren't making any sense now, the gap between peak human and superhuman bullet timera is pretty big. Bullseye,Elektra,and Daredevil are all capable of dodgine sniper fire. Which means they all have reactions above a peek human.
enhanced human agility which is why hes able to bullet time since his sense of equilibrium is on par with Spider-man.
Elektra is superhuman bro shes shown fighting Gorgon and its explained that they both operate at a level above peak human shield agents allowing them to have a convo in a room before the agents even realize their there in the room with them.
Batman is aim dodging bullets hes only peak human, you aren't going to change anyone's mind about this since the whole point about Cassandra being above anyone in the batman family is because shes a bullet timer and no one in the bat family is capable of that.
It says Enhanced human...meaning the toxic exposure caused effects on his brain. His "enhanced" agility stems from the physical condition he trained himself in throughout the years + his heightened awarness giving him the location of any threat coming his way.
His actual body isn't capable of superhuman agility feats.
It says enhanced human agility obviously if hes keeping up with Spider-man in agility hes superhuman. Reality is that balance is in fact a sense which is why hes considered superhuman in that regard.
Also yes Daredevil does have Superhuman agility since hes capable of batting away bullets and ninja vanishing in front of a snipers scope.
If his powers only enhanced his senses then they would obviously list his reflexes as above peak human and not his agility.
Originally posted by SasuOna
You aren't making any sense now, the gap between peak human and superhuman bullet timera is pretty big. Bullseye,Elektra,and Daredevil are all capable of dodgine sniper fire. Which means they all have reactions above a peek human.enhanced human agility which is why hes able to bullet time since his sense of equilibrium is on par with Spider-man.
Elektra is superhuman bro shes shown fighting Gorgon and its explained that they both operate at a level above peak human shield agents allowing them to have a convo in a room before the agents even realize their there in the room with them.
Batman is aim dodging bullets hes only peak human, you aren't going to change anyone's mind about this since the whole point about Cassandra being above anyone in the batman family is because shes a bullet timer and no one in the bat family is capable of that.
You're missing my point, man. Why do you draw this line with "bullet dodging"? Since when ability to dodge bullets defines you as superhuman? Forget about Batman, take any other peak human. You say that if character A can dodge bullets it mean he's superhuman. Why is that? Because peak humans logically SHOULDN'T be able to dodge bullets? But there are lots of thing they shouldnt be able to to do. Yet they do them all the time. Bullet dodging being just one of them.
So we have 2 chars fighting each other, one of them has enhanced agility and peak human speed, the other peak human agility and peak human speed, but BOTH of them are fast enough to dodge bullets (not just aim). And while we can assume that the first might be a bit faster as he's enhanced the speed difference overall wont be that big. Im not trying to change anyone's mind but going by your logic, Cassandra shouldnt be able to dodge bullets because she doesnt have superhuman speed. Elektra was never said to have super speed either , yet she dodges bullets all the time. So why can't Batman? Or Nightwing? Because Cassandra is just barely (if at all) faster than them.
My main point - You cant just assume that Batman's or Nightwing's speed cant rival Daredevil's simply because theirs isnt said to be "enhanced". They all have roughly the same level of speed. So the fact that Bullseye has "enhanced" writen in his bio doesnt mean he's gonna blitz anyone who doesn't have it written.
Originally posted by iceman24567
👆 Including Nightwing
Originally posted by the ninjakYeah, that and the fact that they're just that damn good. It doesnt take superhuman speed in comix.
Agreed BE and DD have heightened awareness that allows bullet time. Not enhanced Speed and Agility.
Originally posted by SamZEDSo we have 2 chars fighting each other, one of them has enhanced agility and peak human speed, the other peak human agility and peak human speed, but BOTH of them are fast enough to dodge bullets (not just aim). And while we can assume that the first might be a bit faster as he's enhanced the speed difference overall wont be that big. Im not trying to change anyone's mind but going by your logic, Cassandra shouldnt be able to dodge bullets because she doesnt have superhuman speed. Elektra was never said to have super speed either , yet she dodges bullets all the time. So why can't Batman? Or Nightwing? Because Cassandra is just barely (if at all) faster than them.
Stop using the term super speed since this is not helping your argument any as we are not talking about travel speed anyway.
If you think batman has the reactions capable to dodge bullets then your wrong.
Using all of the high end peak human showings from Green arrow hes still not a bullet timer and hes only capable of aim dodging just like batman another peak human.
Cassandra is able to dodge bullets because shes obviously an extremely broken peak human(with some ridiculous bullet timing feats) and has her body reading ability. I mean its noted quite often thats shes above everyone in the bat family so you saying that since DC classifies her as peak human and she can bullet time it must mean the other members of the bat family can too since they are peak human is illogical.
Either they have feats of bullet timing or they don't. If batman has reacted to a bullet after its fired that would make him superhuman and no longer peak human in reactions.
Once again Batman is only peak human and is not capable of superhuman agility.
You people are spamming this out of proportion. Labels like enhanced, peak human and superspeed mean nothing. Actual feats mean things.
Cassandar is not considered a meta-human in DC and her higher end bullet timing feats are better than any of these people's. Likewise, Bullseye isn't an actual superhuman either, he has no superpowers, just extarordinary human talents.
Originally posted by SasuOnaCassandra also had trouble fighting Tim Drake. They all got the same level of speed, the difference is tiny. The one real difference - Cass was shown to dodge bullets in slowmotion while others weren't. Doesnt mean they cant or that they're much slower than her.
Stop using the term super speed since this is not helping your argument any as we are not talking about travel speed anyway.
If you think batman has the reactions capable to dodge bullets then your wrong.
Using all of the high end peak human showings from Green arrow hes still not a bullet timer and hes only capable of aim dodging just like batman another peak human.Cassandra is able to dodge bullets because shes obviously an extremely broken peak human(with some ridiculous bullet timing feats) and has her body reading ability. I mean its noted quite often thats shes above everyone in the bat family so you saying that since DC classifies her as peak human and she can bullet time it must mean the other members of the bat family can too since they are peak human is illogical.
Either they have feats of bullet timing or they don't. If batman has reacted to a bullet after its fired that would make him superhuman and no longer peak human in reactions.
Once again Batman is only peak human and is not capable of superhuman agility.
Originally posted by SamZED
My main point - You cant just assume that Batman's or Nightwing's speed cant rival Daredevil's simply because theirs isnt said to be "enhanced". They all have roughly the same level of speed. So the fact that Bullseye has "enhanced" writen in his bio doesnt mean he's gonna blitz anyone who doesn't have it written.
Originally posted by SamZED
super speed, peak human speed.. in comix there's little difference. There's been a whole thread about it. Bullseye doesnt have "super speed", neither does Batgirl or Elektra or Cap or many others, yet they all dodge bullets after they were fired. Batman is not slower than Cap.
Fail since Cap is stronger than Batman 😖hifty:
Originally posted by SasuOnahttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfreezesniper1.jpg
You aren't making any sense now, the gap between peak human and superhuman bullet timera is pretty big. Bullseye,Elektra,and Daredevil are all capable of dodgine sniper fire. Which means they all have reactions above a peek human.Batman is aim dodging bullets hes only peak human, you aren't going to change anyone's mind about this since the whole point about Cassandra being above anyone in the batman family is because shes a bullet timer and no one in the bat family is capable of that.
Dodging a sniper's bullet that was aimed at his back, after it was fired.
[Detective 804]
[Also, never heard a sound of it, he sensed a change in the air pressure as the bullet was fired, while in a heated interogation.]
Whoop, there goes that aim dodging theory.
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/?action=view¤t=batbulletblock.jpg
lol, Batman knocking bullets out of the air with his hand and forearm.
Bet it was a complete accident.
[Batman Confidential 33]
What the heck is standard gear for bullseye... I mean since he went hawkeye can we say he uses that gear also?
If so I still think team wins but it'll be harder for them. Without hawkeye gear team wins 8/10 with hawkeyes gear 6/10
Hand to hand I actually lean bullseye 6/10... Ollie isn't weak but I think the adamantium has given bullseye the edge...
