Doctor Doom versus Doctor Manhattan
Dr. Manhattan is a being with quantum-mechanical powers. Doctor Doom is a monarch, a position he obtained by being a brilliant scientist as well as a gifted sorceror. Arguments that have already been brought up are "Dr. Manhattan can just wish the enemy out of existence" versus "Dr. Doom absorbed powers of comic entities before. Why would Dr. Manhattan be an exception?"
However, I see a different way the fight might play out - if you read the stories of Doctor Doom, there is often a plot-twist that is genuinely surprising. For a villain, he usually beats the odds by tricks of mind that the superheroes do not see coming. Allow me to illustrate.
Now, Dr. Manhattan, being a cosmic entity, can make anything happen, whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. A normal human being has goals, that is, he seeks a certain state of the world to come about. Through causality and thinking in steps, he can eventually make this state of the world come about. When it happens, we usually say: "the person has obtained his goal". This is how Doom reasons, going by what he says when the American university recruits him: "I have need of nothing but my mind, my ability to see further into the future than any other man." Dr Manhattan sees all possible states of the universe at once, and he can choose to make any of them come about. That is, he could make a state of the world come about in which Doom's atoms are scattered in the wind. Then, being a logical being, he would need a ground on which to prefer that particular state of the world. This gives Doom an opening to bargain. A being that can make anything happen whenever he wishes, has no need for causal reasoning. And if you possess an infinite amount of possibilities, it also becomes hard to see why you would prefer any one thing over another. Doom does not possess such abilities so he has to work his way towards his goals step by step. He stays focused on his goals but he keeps the circumstances into account, so that he can manipulate any circumstantial factor to come closer to his goals. This is why Dr. Doom has developed an incredibly strong Willpower.
We have to take into account that Dr. Doom is a gifted mystic. The moment Dr. Manhattan would consider the state of the world in which the atoms of Dr. Doom are scattered into the wind, he would form a mental image of Dr. Doom. At that point, through his mystic powers, Dr. Doom would be able to see the same images as Dr. Manhattan sees; he sees all the infinite possible states of the universe. However at that moment, Dr. Manhattan would order the atoms of Dr. Doom's armor to fall apart, and after that he would order the molecules of Victor's body to dissipate.
However it would later be revealed that Doctor Doom has returned in a new and more powerful state of being than ever. Because in that brief moment that he existed as a mental image in the mind of Dr. Manhattan, he had used the extreme power of his Will to bend Dr. Manhattan into making the state of the universe come about in which Dr. Doom's scattering molecules would bounce against other molecules and through an extreme causal prediction new atoms would come together to form a Doctor Doom that has the same abilities as Dr. Manhattan. Nobody has foreseen this ability, since how could Dr. Doom influence the mind of Dr. Manhattan when his physical body no longer existed? It is through his mystic abilities, because being a mental image in the mind of Dr. Manhattan, he could see all the possible states of the universe, including states in which his atoms would come together again to remake his body. So his extreme force of Will has allowed the mystic to linger in existence. Now if one says that a mental image without a body can have no power, then we have to admit that Dr. Manhattan has no real body, he has an existence without substance, so to say, he exists as a pure form of mind. And the mental image of Dr. Doom was part of this mind-form. As soon as Dr. Manhattan tries to erase Dr. Doom from his memory, the extreme force of Doom's Will would push back against this, and might possibly overtake the conscience of Dr. Manhattan. Doom would probably expand his influence over the conscience of Dr. Manhattan a little bit at a time, and eventually he would not even need to regain a physical existence.
And this is how I see that Doctor Doom might still gain an unexpected win, not owing to straightforward use of his impressive technology but on his unique character and mind. Remember, in the rule of comic books, superheroes usually have everything going for them: They cooperate better, have more courage and are willing to press on further for the things they believe in. That's why superheroes usually win, not because they have the technological advantage, but because they are morally superior. This is the field where Doom rivals the superheroes, since he rarely shows fear, never panics, and is always more determined. Normally the superheroes are the ones with creativity of mind, but Doom comes up with out-of-the-box approaches to overcome situations that even the reader doesn't see coming. So it are these qualities that I think he would rely on in a fight against Dr. Manhattan, and that he has to rely on would he have to stand a chance.
Originally posted by Omega Visionactually in the end he acknowledges the existence of miracles. That in and of itself means that he believes the order of the universe can be challenged. You would need to see if it causes him to try and challenge the future when he acknowledges that an impossible event occured.
No he doesn't have free will, what's more he knows he doesn't.If you had actually read Watchmen you'd know that.
Manhattan is far from being Surfer lvl. I still think he'd win on the second scenario, but barely: maybe 6/10. Because there's a good chance that Doom **** his shit with magic, wich Manhattan won't see coming. He won't be able to react to that unnatural, chaotic force, and it could really cause his defeat. But most often then not, he dismantle Doom's armor, and kill him.
Originally posted by Bouboumasterhow about seeing all of his personal time line simultaneously.
Manhattan is far from being Surfer lvl. I still think he'd win on the second scenario, but barely: maybe 6/10. Because there's a good chance that Doom **** his shit with magic, wich Manhattan won't see coming. He won't be able to react to that unnatural, chaotic force, and it could really cause his defeat. But most often then not, he dismantle Doom's armor, and kill him.
Originally posted by Black bolt zBut will it stop molecular deconstruction blitz from a being who can "observe events so tiny and so small that they can hardly have been said to occurred at all". I think with prep he can win but 2 should be a 10 for 10 stomp in Manhattans favor. Even in scenario 1 wouldn't it be taken into account that John would look into his future. See what Doom was going to prepare and know what he himself was going prep in answer to anything Doom can do. John's greatest power IMO is the absolute clarity with which he can see through time and the ability is built into his perception of the future so that things that he sees himself doing in the future takes into account that he is actively looking IIRC. Besides at the end of Watchmen he makes the active choice to go against his inherent beliefs that miracles are impossible allowing for the fact that he may indeed decide to one day go against what he sees the future as.
Isn't that what doom has?
Originally posted by Uriel005Jon looking into his future does him no good.
But will it stop molecular deconstruction blitz from a being who can "observe events so tiny and so small that they can hardly have been said to occurred at all". I think with prep he can win but 2 should be a 10 for 10 stomp in Manhattans favor. Even in scenario 1 wouldn't it be taken into account that John would look into his future. See what Doom was going to prepare and know what he himself was going prep in answer to anything Doom can do. John's greatest power IMO is the absolute clarity with which he can see through time and the ability is built into his perception of the future so that things that he sees himself doing in the future takes into account that he is actively looking IIRC. Besides at the end of Watchmen he makes the active choice to go against his inherent beliefs that miracles are impossible allowing for the fact that he may indeed decide to one day go against what he sees the future as.
Jon admitted himself he cannot change what is going to happen. So the only difference that will make is he will know if he is going to win or lose. It won't change the outcome.