Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Because they're stories made up by the Black Power types who want to believe that Africans reached the Americas before Europeans.
Its certainly possible however I only read about two chapters of the book. Did a little reasearch and sure enough alot of people think Sertima is a joke. I think I'll be more careful next time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact
some interesting theories
Originally posted by inimalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contactsome interesting theories
Theories! You racist! Come on now I couldn't let this slide without pulling the race card. 😂
Originally posted by Deadline
Its certainly possible however I only read about two chapters of the book. Did a little reasearch and sure enough alot of people think Sertima is a joke. I think I'll be more careful next time.
Not really. Sub-Saharan Africans were never known for vast seafaring. What African tribe or nation had the ships and organization to pull it off?
I think Polynesians definitely reached the Americas. There's a special on the History Channel called Who Really Discovered America? and one of the professors says "If they could find tiny specks of land in the middle of nowhere, then how could they miss the two massive islands of North and South America?". Plus, crops native to South America were found in the Pacific Islands, as well as Polynesian fish-hook necklaces in South and Central America.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Not really. Sub-Saharan Africans were never known for vast seafaring. What African tribe or nation had the ships and organization to pull it off?
Mali Empire. I think its actually part of their history that a large number of boats set sail for the Atlantic Ocean. No this doesn't mean that they made it but they had the resources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact#Africans
North African sources describe what some consider to be visits to the New World by a Mali fleet in 1311.[47] According to these sources, 400 ships from the Mali Empire discovered a land across the ocean to the West after being swept off course by ocean currents. Only one ship returned, and the captain reported the discovery of a western current to Prince Abubakari II; the off-course Mali fleet of 400 ships is said to have conducted both trade and warfare with the peoples of the western lands. It is claimed that Prince Abubakari II abdicated his throne and set off to explore these western lands. In 1324, the Mali king Mansa Musa is said to have told the Arabic historian, Al-Umari that "his predecessors had launched two expeditions from West Africa to discover the limits of the Atlantic Ocean."
Originally posted by Deadline
By who? Its not actually far fetched at all. The Vikings 'discovered' Americe and as far as I can remember even the Romans and possibly Greeks have. I'm pretty sure hes not the only historian who has this opinion I think Basil Davidson does as well.
Of those claims the only one with hard evidence is the Viking claim and the only ones that are really feasible are the Polynesian and Chinese claims but they lack the tangible proof that the Vinland story has.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
There are a shit ton of claims. Here's the short list of cultures who have claimed to have attained pre-Columbian contact or who have been theorized as being capable of attaining it:
Ancient Egyptians
Greeks
Romans
Welsh
Irish
Vikings
Chinese
Polynesians
West AfricansOf those claims the only one with hard evidence is the Viking claim and the only ones that are really feasible are the Polynesian and Chinese claims but they lack the tangible proof that the Vinland story has.
In the above post all I stated was that it wasn't far fetched that they were able to reach America. Have no problem with the Vikings and others.
However what it looks like to me is Van Sertima blew things way out of proportion, unfortunately some black historians do that. I think it stems from times when there was a deliberate attempt to cover up black history but what happens is that some black historians become like their enemies.
Originally posted by Deadline
In the above post all I stated was that it wasn't far fetched that they were able to reach America. Have no problem with the Vikings and others.However what it looks like to me is Van Sertima blew things way out of proportion, unfortunately some black historians do that. I think it stems from times when there was a deliberate attempt to cover up black history but what happens is that some black historians become like their enemies.
Even if there was the theoretical possibility that an early seafaring African culture could make the voyage there's still the matter of determining whether they would make the voyage.
The Egyptians for instance had ships which have actually been proven to be ocean worthy, but almost no one seriously suggests that they'd ever try to cross the Ocean.
The reason why the Polynesian, Chinese, and Viking claims are believable (well in the Viking's case we've found actual settlements and trade goods) is that these cultures had both the means and the possible inclination to cross the Ocean. Especially the Polynesians who are almost defined by their island hopping.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
During the 19th and early 20th centuries a lot of discoveries of ancient African civilizations were usually erroneously attributed to white people so yes there have been serious misrepresentations of African civilization in Western academia. That doesn't change the fact that the burden of proof would be on the person claiming that Africans visited the Americas prior to Columbus.
I know.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Even if there was the theoretical possibility that an early seafaring African culture could make the voyage there's still the matter of determining whether they would make the voyage.The Egyptians for instance had ships which have actually been proven to be ocean worthy, but almost no one seriously suggests that they'd ever try to cross the Ocean.
I don't know about that but I see were you coming from. I haven't studied Mali ships in-depth all I can say is that they were extremely rich and had the resources, so that story I quoted may well have happened.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The reason why the Polynesian, Chinese, and Viking claims are believable (well in the Viking's case we've found actual settlements and trade goods) is that these cultures had both the means and the possible inclination to cross the Ocean. Especially the Polynesians who are almost defined by their island hopping.
Sure.
Originally posted by Deadline
I know.I don't know about that but I see were you coming from. I haven't studied Mali ships in-depth all I can say is that they were extremely rich and had the resources, so that story I quoted may well have happened.
Sure.
Even the Vikings preferred to stick to coast lines and used Iceland and the Faroe Islands as safety rails on their way to Greenland and Vinland.
Ibn Battuta seemed to describe Mali as a civilization every bit as rich and sophisticated as that of Byzantium or the Ilkhanate. So they may well have had the resources, its just a question of (1) if they had the reason/will to send ships across the ocean and (2) if they could have actually navigated the open ocean.