Elektra vs Blade

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes it does. A bullet is a bullet. If a character is legitimately fast enough to dodge a bullet, the shooter is irrelevant.

No it doesn't. If you know were the opponent is going to be before they get there you can use tactics to shoot them. Again its not clear cut, try to understand that.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Not the only arc, just the most recent one.

Again you don't see anything wrong with decades of abilities on one arc? Again its stated that Elektra aim dodges.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wrong... But that's par for the course when it comes to you eh?

You are simply arguing against this because its me. You had no problem with Bushwacker shooting Wolverine.

Originally posted by Deadline

You are simply arguing against this because its me. You had no problem with Bushwacker shooting Wolverine.

No I'm not... I'm actually in agreement..... (just a sec, I need to process that in my head........ agreement?.....really?..... yeah... okay) with what you just wrote in response to Srank.

of course I think Srank's argument is accidently set up to sound like it means something he didn't outright say yet.

I agree with you that Spiderman doesn't necessarily need to aim dodge. And one certainly can't assume as much based on the ambiguity of one arc or the statements of another.
I also agree that one statement about what a character is doing in a single instance does not automatically preclude a number of other feats not held under the same circumstances from mattering in context to said character...

So point to you on your comment about Elektra aim dodging...

But Spiderman being shot and spiderman dodging punches are two completely different beasts... I've already explained to you in detail why that is and you can go back to that instance to see the reasoning behind it.
.... I'm not arguing for the sake of it. Far from it.

Originally posted by jinzin

So point to you on your comment about Elektra aim dodging...

I'm not going to bother posting the scan. Its stupid to base her ability on one thing some guy said.

Originally posted by jinzin

But Spiderman being shot and spiderman dodging punches are two completely different beats... I've already explained to you in detail why that is and you can go back to that instance to see the reasoning behind it.
.... I'm not arguing for the sake of it. Far from it.

I'm sorry thats just nonsense.
1. You never argued this shit before.
2. Had no problem with Bushwacker shooting Wolverine who can dodge bullets after they have been fired. So even if there is CIS it doesn't matter.
3. You didn't explain nothing you just made some assumptions and try interpret that as proof, sorry.

EDIT: Look I apologise If I sound like I'm a jerk but at least we agree on something but honestly think you're just chaning your argument. It would be nice if we could have a civil debate for a change.

Originally posted by Deadline
No it doesn't. If you know were the opponent is going to be before they get there you can use tactics to shoot them. Again its not clear cut, try to understand that.

Again you don't see anything wrong with decades of abilities on one arc? Again its stated that Elektra aim dodges.

And if a character was legitimately fast enough to dodge a bullet... they would see that they were about to run into a bullet... and you know... like... not run into. Shooting where your target is going to be is a solution for over zealous aim dodgers, not for legitimate bullet timers.

Decades of abilities? You can count the number of times Spider-man has legitimately bullet dodged on one hand...

Elektra was stated as aim dodging when she was escaping from HAMMER. A time when powers were non functioning, she was severely injured, sleep deprived and hand been tortured by HAMMER since she was recovered after Secrete Invasion. She wasn't exactly in tip top shape.

That said, outside of a few extreme examples that are clearly against the grain for the characters in question, streets - all of them, Elektra included - aim dodge. Now there are some low caliber hand gun bullets travel at speeds of only 700mph, in which case legitimate bullet dodging is a possibility, but higher caliber bullets and rifle fire are aim dodged or PIS.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And if a character was legitimately fast enough to dodge a bullet... they would see that they were about to run into a bullet... and you know... like... not run into.

Again not clear cut I can dodge a tennis ball after its been thrown doesn't mean I can stop myself from running into it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Shooting where your target is going to be is a solution for over zealous aim dodgers, not for legitimate bullet timers.

O for god sake stop stating your opinion like its a fact. You can't prove that characters who get shot by bullets are overzealous aim dodgers. You're just assuming they are. Does she look like a god damn aimdodger?

http://img63.imageshack.us/i/punshootsspeedster.jpg/

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Decades of abilities? You can count the number of times Spider-man has legitimately bullet dodged on one hand...

Elektra was stated as aim dodging when she was escaping from HAMMER. A time when powers were non functioning, she was severely injured, sleep deprived and hand been tortured by HAMMER since she was recovered after Secrete Invasion. She wasn't exactly in tip top shape.

That said, outside of a few extreme examples that are clearly against the grain for the characters in question, streets - all of them, Elektra included - aim dodge. Now there are some low caliber hand gun bullets travel at speeds of only 700mph, in which case legitimate bullet dodging is a possibility, but higher caliber bullets and rifle fire are aim dodged or PIS.

Dunno what to say man.

Originally posted by Deadline
I'm sorry thats just nonsense.
1. You never argued this shit before.
2. Had no problem with Bushwacker shooting Wolverine who can dodge bullets after they have been fired. So even if there is CIS it doesn't matter.
3. You didn't explain nothing you just made some assumptions and try interpret that as proof, sorry.

[b]EDIT: Look I apologise If I sound like I'm a jerk but at least we agree on something but honestly think you're just chaning your argument. It would be nice if we could have a civil debate for a change. [/B]

Okay, I'll give it the best chance I got.... but telling me that I'm spewing out nonsense when I'm telling you about arguments I've made no less than a week ago isn't the best way to start things civil K?

Look here's my previous post on the matter of bullets/punches vs. Spiderman, in detail as I claimed.

Originally posted by jinzin
You CAN redirect your punch in mid-attack. Again, it's called leading a target and anyone with even a passing familiarity in fighting and sparring will pick up on this.

That's the difference between a punch and a bullet... Bullets run a straight line from the barrel of the gun to the point of impact. Yeah, there might be a slight disconnect given some outside circumstances but it's not the same as a punch which can literally follow the target once it's left it's "chamber".

And... as Zed already stated, Spiderman's reactions to his SS warning are better the more progressive the threat.

Punisher's shot Spiderman, and Spiderman's been shot a few times... Sure, it shows, Punisher's skill accredited by ONE writer, or Spiderman's fallibility by another...

But the TYPICAL representation of Parker's abilities have him not getting shot... by bullets, things that are faster than bullets, like lazers.... shot from robotics using automatic targeting systems and motion detection. Even analytical computers learning his abilities and trying to pinpoint his next move...

AND... TYPICALLY he's dodging this kind of crap in spades.. dozens of bullets if not hundreds..... if not thousands!

The bottem line is that as mentioned before... You can't use the variable of one argument to support another. Me, Sam and everyone else here understands the principle of what you're talking about in concerns to Flash etc.... It's not that we "don't get your point", it's that your point is skewed because the speed at which both characters move is not the issue.... The level of their ability to do a certain thing, and the amount of times it's typically presented at said level, IS.

You can make an argument for Spiderman getting punched in the face by gifted/fast/crafty foes because that's typically how he's demonstrated in his abilities...
What you can't do is make an argument that he can be shot by a skilled marksman because it's happened half a dozen times in a 60 year long career through thousands and thousands of publications... Not when he's proved the opposite hundreds and hundreds of times over including during situations where he doesn't know he's being shot at until it happens, dodging bullets after they've been fired on his center mass, or dodging machine gun fire in a room from 500 members of Hydra.

It doesn't stack up and you know it.

As for your point 2.
I never had a problem with Bushwacker hitting Wolverine.... Okay? What exactly are you getting at with this example? I'm not following what you think it proves here.... please explain.

And 3.... That's not an accurate assessment of my argument. All of my points about Spiderman and how he deals with bullets come from:
On panel statements.
On panel artist depictions.
On panel narrative.
Consistency.
And examples that both demonstrate and stress the points I was making all along... Nothing in that post I just quoted of myself has ANY basis in assumption... 😕

In any case, I'm thinking this thread's beginning to get derailed.

Once again I see the debate has shifted back to combat speed. I hope most of you know that Dodging a bullet does not mean said character can run at 240 m/s.
Its irrelevant anyway Elektra isn't an aim dodger but this has nothing to do with her not displaying a quantifiable speed feat that is beyond peak human.
The only stat she has an advantage over Blade in is her skill in the martial arts.
Every scenario should go to Blade imo she has no chance

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And if a character was legitimately fast enough to dodge a bullet... they would see that they were about to run into a bullet... and you know... like... not run into. Shooting where your target is going to be is a solution for over zealous aim dodgers, not for legitimate bullet timers.

Decades of abilities? You can count the number of times Spider-man has legitimately bullet dodged on one hand...

Elektra was stated as aim dodging when she was escaping from HAMMER. A time when powers were non functioning, she was severely injured, sleep deprived and hand been tortured by HAMMER since she was recovered after Secrete Invasion. She wasn't exactly in tip top shape.

That said, outside of a few extreme examples that are clearly against the grain for the characters in question, streets - all of them, Elektra included - aim dodge. Now there are some low caliber hand gun bullets travel at speeds of only 700mph, in which case legitimate bullet dodging is a possibility, but higher caliber bullets and rifle fire are aim dodged or PIS.

So basically, you put no credence in Streets blocking/dodging/catching bullets and instead use those feats as a measuring stick during feat based pissing contests correct?

Because while I agree that unless someone has flashlike speed or teleportation, they shouldn't be bullet dodging... They do.. a lot.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Once again I see the debate has shifted back to combat speed. I hope most of you know that Dodging a bullet does not mean said character can run at 240 m/s.
Its irrelevant anyway Elektra isn't an aim dodger but this has nothing to do with her not displaying a quantifiable speed feat that is beyond peak human.
The only stat she has an advantage over Blade in is her skill in the martial arts.
Every scenario should go to Blade imo she has no chance

But...... that's because your opinion is based on a wild misrepresentation of Elektra's character as a peak human... 😕

What glorious superhuman speed feat has Blade ever displayed that somehow makes Elektra any slower than him by comparison?

Originally posted by Konton
What glorious superhuman speed feat has Blade ever displayed that somehow makes Elektra any slower than him by comparison?

Yeah I asked that on the first page.. or was it the second... I'm still waitin.

he's half vampire..a bat- manbatman

every character in every comic book has dodged bullets at some point...including blade so how in god's name do you guys try to make it a valid argument.EVERY CHARACTER CAN DO IT!!!

Originally posted by Deadline
Again not clear cut I can dodge a tennis ball after its been thrown doesn't mean I can stop myself from running into it.

And that would be on you not the person throwing the ball. If you would likely me to admit that Spider-man could conceivably run into a bullet if he was careless and not paying attention, I will do that... but I'll point out that the odds of it happening are virtually non-existent.

Originally posted by Deadline
O for god sake stop stating your opinion like its a fact. You can't prove that characters who get shot by bullets are overzealous aim dodgers. You're just assuming they are. Does she look like a god damn aimdodger?

http://img63.imageshack.us/i/punshootsspeedster.jpg/

I'm sorry I should have said over zealous aim dodgers and idiots.

I can't say for certain that she isn't an aim dodger. I don't know how fast she is going or what her top speed is. If she was running at 2-300 mph, that would be legitimate clear cut super speed, more than enough to overwhelm a human... but not nearly fast enough to dodge a bullet. Her twitch reflexes would need to be at least in the 1,000mph speed range... and I don't know if they are, and frankly I would doubt it.

Conservative estimates put Spidy at 10-15x human in speed. Even disreguarding his SS, he can concivably dodge hand gun bullets on pure speed. He isn't fast enough to dodge rifle and high cal bullets though.

Originally posted by jinzin
But...... that's because your opinion is based on a wild misrepresentation of Elektra's character as a peak human... 😕

Except she actually regularly fights evenly with people that are considered peak human not to mention she has a habit of losing horribly against people with any type of superhuman anything.

Yeah shes peak human unless you want to start making the argument that Bullseye with prep can somehow compensate for her "superhuman" stats and be above her on every level.

Originally posted by King Castle
he's half vampire..a bat- manbatman

Originally posted by SasuOna
Except she actually regularly fights evenly with people that are considered peak human

Originally posted by SasuOna
not to mention she has a habit of losing horribly against people with any type of superhuman anything.

Like Wolverine, Palidin, Silver Samurai, The Chaste, the higher ups in the Hand, and Super Skrulls! dur

Originally posted by SasuOna
Yeah shes peak human unless you want to start making the argument that Bullseye with prep can somehow compensate for her "superhuman" stats and be above her on every level.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Except she actually regularly fights evenly with people that are considered peak human not to mention she has a habit of losing horribly against people with any type of superhuman anything.

Yeah shes peak human unless you want to start making the argument that Bullseye with prep can somehow compensate for her "superhuman" stats and be above her on every level.

What? Elektra has one of the BEST track records against superhuman opponents lol.

She was slugging it out with hoards Superskrulls and KILLING them, even tanking multiple hits from Colossus' skrull before finally going down.

She outmuscled and impaled Paladin with a blunt object.

She routinely goes h2h with Wolverine.

She trashed Razorfist.

She took down the Silver Samurai.

She blitzed the X-Mansion....

Your ignorance knows no bounds lately.

Originally posted by jinzin
So basically, you put no credence in Streets blocking/dodging/catching bullets and instead use those feats as a measuring stick during feat based pissing contests correct?

Because while I agree that unless someone has flashlike speed or teleportation, they shouldn't be bullet dodging... They do.. a lot.

%100 Correct.

Elektra. Beat. Red She-hulk.