Lucifer in Dante's Inferno was an absolute dick. An almost likeable one in a way, due in part to the great performances from the VAs.
Example:
YouTube video
See that f'ing look he gives at around 1:50? That's not even counting the fact that he and Dante's woman are burying their faces under one-another's tounges.
EDIT: We also need a Heavy Rain sequel just so Lt. Blake can die. Mandatorily.
Being beaten by a stronger hero doesn't mean they're bad villains. It just means they fight a better hero.
Bowser, for one, is quite entertaining and fun to fight against. When he's serious, he can be a great villain. When he's not serious, he's still generally a great character.
Ganondorf is always serious, and he's always been great villain material with his motivations and actions. He's a monster, plain and simple, and losing to a hero doesn't change that.
But then, how are we defining "villain"?
Originally posted by The Scenario
Being beaten by a stronger hero doesn't mean they're bad villains. It just means they fight a better hero.Bowser, for one, is quite entertaining and fun to fight against. When he's serious, he can be a great villain. When he's not serious, he's still generally a great character.
Ganondorf is always serious, and he's always been great villain material with his motivations and actions. He's a monster, plain and simple, and losing to a hero doesn't change that.
But then, how are we defining "villain"?
Well for one thing a villian needs to be somewhat threatening. A villian who constantly gets their asses handed to them soon becomes more of a joke than a genuine threat. Being beaten over and over again makes the audience all the less threatened whenever they appear, becuase they've lost so often its just a matter of time before they do so again.
Its not that they've been beaten, because all villains get beaten. Its just the sheer number of times they've been beaten makes them look kinda pathetic. Bowser moreso than Ganon, as I don't really know much about Ganon but I think he's actually won a few.
Not to mention Bowser's just a dick who wants to take over the world. Hardly interesting.
Some of the Great Villains I can think of..
Scorge from Gears of War 2 because he seems to be kind of like one of my favorite Sith from SW. He uses a double edged blade, doesn't talk, and owns in blade combat. His villainous behavior can be seen from his steady and absolute dedication to the Locust Cause which is "Destroy the Humans".
Mithos Yggdrasill from Tales of Symphonia. While some people say he was just confused, I don't think so. He was seeking revenge, for how the Half-Elves were treated. At the very end of the game he even said "If I had the chance, I would do it all over again.."
Originally posted by NephthysEvery villain loses, generally.
Ganon's kinda weighed down by his half-dozen or so consecutive defeats imo.Its the same thing when people try and pass Bowser off as no1. The guy gets his ass kicked on a weekly basis. How is that good villian material?
The difference is, when Ganondorf loses, it's temporary, instead of a permanent defeat.
Which is more impressive.
Well neithers actually impressive at all imo. 😬
Though obviously temporary defeats are better than permanent ones but being beaten 5+ times by the same person becomes pathetic really fast. Particularily when you're playing as that character. It makes his defeat all the more inevitable.
Constant losses aren't impressive at all. Anyone who claims Bowsers awesome because Mario can't put him down for good is just fanboying. Mario still puts him down. Every single time. Same thing with Ganon.
The same thing happened with the Joker. After a while Batman was just like 'oh god not you again'. facepalm And there was one comic which was basically Batman telling him he's old news and boring now. Heck, he's considering just letting Robin handle him from now on.
Originally posted by NephthysYeah man, being killed and coming back each time despite efforts to keep you sealed is not impressive AT ALL.
Well neithers actually impressive at all imo. 😬Though obviously temporary defeats are better than permanent ones but being beaten 5+ times by the same person becomes pathetic really fast. Particularily when you're playing as that character. It makes his defeat all the more inevitable.
Constant losses aren't impressive at all. Anyone who claims Bowsers awesome because Mario can't put him down for good is just fanboying. Mario still puts him down. Every single time. Same thing with Ganon.
The same thing happened with the Joker. After a while Batman was just like 'oh god not you again'. facepalm And there was one comic which was basically Batman telling him he's old news and boring now. Heck, he's considering just letting Robin handle him from now on.
It is a different Link each time. Said Link always has outside help in order to win. Outside help from differing sources, the only constant are Master Swords and Light Arrows, he also has help from random sages, TEH TRIFORCE ITSELF, or strangely sexy imps.
Difference is Link and friends try to actually kill Ganondorf, and fail each time.
So in your rather lame view a villain can only be good if they are a one-off? Nah, GTFO.
Originally posted by Sappho
Seph, shepard, zues, and thats about it. I personally dont take too much interest in villains, and idk if i could ever actually hate one. If i did, its probably cus i got pissed and stuggled with him at the end of the game or somethin haha.
kinda interesting since you have a villain in your sig.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah man, being killed and coming back each time despite efforts to keep you sealed is not impressive AT ALL.It is a different Link each time. Said Link always has outside help in order to win. Outside help from differing sources, the only constant are Master Swords and Light Arrows, he also has help from random sages, TEH TRIFORCE ITSELF, or strangely sexy imps.
Difference is Link and friends try to actually kill Ganondorf, and fail each time.
So in your rather lame view a villain can only be good if they are a one-off? Nah, GTFO.
Emphasis on the 'being killed' part. Over and over again.
Well like I said, I don't know jack about Ganon, not having played a Zelda game since OoT on my Grandads Nintendo when I was like 7. All I know is his combat abilities from the VGvs and that he's been killed like 5-6 times.
No, there are plenty of villians that remain threatening without being one-shots. The trick is that they actually win and don't get their asses kicked by the hero everytime they meet, keeping them as actual threats. Darth Vader for instance won at least as much as he lost and remained threatening because he was an actual, serious threat to the heroes. Someone like Bowser though gets his ass whooped on a weekly basis by Mario. Its really hard to take him as a credible thread after that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Emphasis on the 'being killed' part. Over and over again.Well like I said, I don't know jack about Ganon, not having played a Zelda game since OoT on my Grandads Nintendo when I was like 7. All I know is his combat abilities from the VGvs and that he's been killed like 5-6 times.
No, there are plenty of villians that remain threatening without being one-shots. The trick is that they actually win and don't get their asses kicked by the hero everytime they meet, keeping them as actual threats. Darth Vader for instance won at least as much as he lost and remained threatening because he was an actual, serious threat to the heroes. Someone like Bowser though gets his ass whooped on a weekly basis by Mario. Its really hard to take him as a credible thread after that.