Atheist Discrimination

Started by Sappho5 pages

Originally posted by Digi
Alright, Christ, here goes:

[b]I. Severity vs. Prevalence
- First we need to make a distinction between what I will term Severity and Prevalence. Discrimination against atheists is NOT more severe than against most other antagonized groups. What it is, however, is more prevalent than many.
- I'd argue that if you conducted a nationwide survey (in the US, this is) with the question "Do you trust {____}?" for various cultural groups, atheists would be trusted by less people than traditionally discriminated groups such as blacks or Jews. I am not guessing at this theory either, there are numerous studies to support this conclusion. I will discuss them further in future posts when I have the time.[/B]

That is sad. I didnt know that. Its extremely irritating to actually know that if you dont believe in god that your trusted by less people.

Originally posted by Digi
[b]II. Cultural Anecdotes
- Several states still have laws on the books preventing atheists from holding public office. And to put it into context, consider the state of voting and political rights for literally ANY other group of people...no parallel exists. It's doubtful these laws would be upheld if challenged, as many are simply old and not changed. But their existence is telling enough.
- Fox News recently ran a long piece on a man they villainized and linked to numerous scams and injustices throughout Washington and the world (Glen Beck actually made news because of the story recently for some inflammatory comments contained in it). By the end of the segment, the man was reduced to a level normally reserved for Hitler-level evil. And the very, very first thing we learn about this man in the segment was that he was an atheist. His atheism wasn't related to anything in the piece. Yet it was mentioned at the forefront. I wonder why?
...most will read that and say "Well, consider the source!" But that's my point. Fox News reflects and influences a huge chunk of the popular zeitgeist. It's an indication of a much larger sentiment.[/B]

Being old and unchanged, imo, has more influence on keeping these (laws) than what people think. And to think that if an election came up, one of the people running for democrat/republican/third party candidate be an atheist, thats like an automatic knockout. i can gaurantee anyone that.

Originally posted by Digi
[b]III. Personal Anecdotes
- I've lost friends over my leaving religion, had girls break up with me upon finding out (no further than a month or so into the relationship, but still), and am on numerous prayer lists for me to find God again so that I'm not damned to Hell. The first and third of those don't bother me...such "friends" aren't worth having, and prayer lists are harmless, much like the attempted re-conversions that often accompany them. The second is a bit troubling, however. "Non-religious" make up roughly 12-20% of the population (depending on your source and definition of nonreligious). Atheism is considered at the extreme end of even that spectrum, and often associated with the aforementioned mistrust and misunderstanding. Many "spiritual but nonreligious" people will shun atheism as wholly as a Christian might, and certainly more than would be rebuffed by, say, an agnostic. Frankly, it's f*cking hard to date, and is an unfortunate consequence of my lack of religion.

- Holidays are uncomfortable, as are things like my mother stressing 'God' in God Bless You when I sneeze. I can't rag on my mom much, because for her very strict upbringing, she's been cool about the whole thing. But it's not easy on her, and it's a strain on me as a result because it's always something in the background of our relationship that I know she'll never be comfortable with.[/B]

Those friends arent worth having, but it still pisses me off. Just the other day this chick said i have my "head in the books" too much and that i was going crazy. And about the mom thing, was it awkward when you told her? I keep my atheism from my parents, and idk if thats exactly a good thing. If they find out, which will most likely happen sometime in the future, i dont think it will be pretty. Im absolutely sure my mom would break down into tears, and i have a feeling my dad has hints that i am but doesnt know for sure.

Originally posted by Digi
....

Take from that what you will. Almost anyone can claim some sort of discriminatory status and have a chip on their shoulder as a result. I don't list any of this to pretend like my plight, or atheists' plight, is worse than that of any other. My financial, physical, and social well-being are much more intrinsic to my overall contentedness than anything having to do with religion. But it exists for many, and to pretend otherwise is laughably false.


exactly.

I wouldn't advise you one way another on whether or not to tell your family. Every situation is different. You can always just "leave" religion without realigning yourself, however. Being lapsed is far less a crime in some peoples' eyes than becoming an atheist, which can induce shock at the very mention of the word (which, I will admit, is a guilty pleasure occasionally when I want to mess with hardcore religious people).

And probably the most awkward part was having to explain my reasoning to my mom without actually explaining it. A lot of people are insulated. She wouldn't know how to deal with the rebuttals to Christianity and religion that I'm aware of. It's not a lack of intelligence, just a lack of exposure. And I'm not in the business of trying to pull people away from their faith if it's a source of strength for them, which it is for my mom. So it was a delicate dance, because I also couldn't make her aware of the fact that I was trying to shield her...quite a bit of planning went into it, much more so than with anyone else.

...

My sister was much more amusing. I sat her down all seriously and such and she was like "so, are you gay?" And I was like "No, I'm atheist. Wait, you thought I could be gay?" And she was like "Well, no, but I couldn't think of anything else you'd sit me down for. I figured you were either gay or had cancer." So I lol'd and that was that.

so far ive told my parents that i strongly dislike some views in the bible and thats about it. my dad told me once before that i "better believe in god" which, frankly, pissed me off, but for the sake of my mom i didnt mention it.

tbh, i get pleasure when i see a religious person who talks and argues with me, calls ME stupid, says i dont know what im talking about, yet i argue circles around them. i dont try to, and in fact i actually try to stay away from arguing with people because i hate that image and they probably do get hope and strength from that- just a few that come around and really ask for it. delicate dance is a perfect way to put it. maybe i should use that with my mom...

and thats funny haha. gay? if i thought my sister/brother had cancer id be scared, but if it was the either way around and they thought i was gay? id start asking questions lol.

Originally posted by Digi
My sister was much more amusing. I sat her down all seriously and such and she was like "so, are you gay?" And I was like "No, I'm atheist. Wait, you thought I could be gay?" And she was like "Well, no, but I couldn't think of anything else you'd sit me down for. I figured you were either gay or had cancer."
😂
Gold, Jerry. Gold.

Originally posted by Digi

[b]II. Cultural Anecdotes

- Several states still have laws on the books preventing atheists from holding public office. And to put it into context, consider the state of voting and political rights for literally ANY other group of people...no parallel exists. It's doubtful these laws would be upheld if challenged, as many are simply old and not changed. But their existence is telling enough. [/B]

Yeah, its also unlawful for a woman to wear shorts in Tucson, AZ.

There's a lot of laws still on the books like the ones you and I just listed that no one really cares about: they're called blue laws.

Originally posted by King Kandy
George H.W. Bush implied that atheists shouldn't be counted as americans.

You know, for someone who claims they're fed up with all the "what counts as religion" semantics arguments, you sure do go out of your way to steer any topic you enter towards that issue.

He's right.

Bush, I mean.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yeah, its also unlawful for a woman to wear shorts in Tucson, AZ.

There's a lot of laws still on the books like the ones you and I just listed that no one really cares about: they're called blue laws.

Agreed. Did I not say that they likely wouldn't be upheld if challenged? That was not my point.

So answer me this follow-up question: in those states (I don't have the list offhand, but could easily look it up if needed), do you think an atheist could be elected to any political position if his religious beliefs were known publicly?

Your post amounts to sweeping my point under the rug and telling someone it's not there anymore. Go ahead and address the rest of my earlier post, I'd love to hear your justifications.

Originally posted by Mindship
😂
Gold, Jerry. Gold.

😉

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yeah, its also unlawful for a woman to wear shorts in Tucson, AZ.

There's a lot of laws still on the books like the ones you and I just listed that no one really cares about: they're called blue laws.


even then, it shouldnt have been there at all in the first place.

Originally posted by Sappho
even then, it shouldnt have been there at all in the first place.

Why? Perhaps they had good reasons.

good reasons to keep an atheist from holding office? not really.... name one.

Originally posted by Sappho
good reasons to keep an atheist from holding office? not really.... name one.

I was asking you why should these laws have not been on the book in the past. I did not ask you any question about today.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was asking you why should these laws have not been on the book in the past. I did not ask you any question about today.

There was no point in the past when such a law would have held up to reasonable analysis.

I have met many people who have been discriminated against for being religious.

Especially online.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There was no point in the past when such a law would have held up to reasonable analysis.

Can you reword that?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you reword that?

Even in the past when laws forbidding atheists to take office would have been based on unsound logic.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Even in the past when laws forbidding atheists to take office would have been based on unsound logic.

What was their unsound logic?

Originally posted by JacopeX
I have met many people who have been discriminated against for being religious.

Especially online.

Can you give some examples?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What was their unsound logic?

Generally something along the lines of "atheists are evil".

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Generally something along the lines of "atheists are evil".

Really? That doesn't sound right. Why would have sensible people come to that conclusion, in the past?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Really? That doesn't sound right. Why would have sensible people come to that conclusion, in the past?

Sensible people often become convinced of irrational things.