Originally posted by Konton
Whole lotta 'ifs' in that Maxwell Lord argument.
That's just what angle you're asking from. "Can Xavier and Emma win? If they can blow past Manchester in a few seconds, if Lord doesn't have psychic defense, and if they can take a planetary-scale mindwipe, then they can win"
Those are some pretty huge ifs.
Glorificus
Also, "IF" Maxwell Lord has enough time, then yeah, sure he might be able to reach full throttle and pull off another super mind wipe.
No "might," he would be able to do so, having demonstrated the capacity.
And it shouldn't take particularly longer than their telepathic attacks.
But what takes more time? Max completely overwhelming the consciousness of someone with ESTABLISHED strong psychic resistances like Emma Frost with Mind Control, or Emma simply Psi Bolting someone with no ESTABLISHED psychic defenses?
And you're forgetting Chester, one of DC's strongest telepaths.
How often do telepaths have no defenses in comparison to their offense either? That's a fairly big assumption considering we have no evidence he's telepathically defenseless.
Charles Xavier and Emma Frost.
Charles's attack on the Znox was felt on the otherside of the Universe by the Shi'ar telepaths. That is how D'Ken knew Lilandra was heading towards Earth and that is why he sent his Agent Eric the Red to murder Professor X. Charles has also contacted the Stranger unaided who was off on other planets. Current Xavier is stated to be stronger then he's ever been.
Emma Frost just recently communicated with Scott from somewhere in space unaided. She also had her mind completely severed from her body and in turn broke the global Skrull blockade inhibiting telepathy (7 Skrulls telepaths each with their own Cerebra and each has been trained to fight the X-telepaths).
So they don't lack power. On top of that they both fight very, very durrrty.
Originally posted by Q99
They don't lack power, but they don't have unlimited-blood Lord level power.
Maxwell Lord screwed over a bunch of telepaths who weren't suspecting attack. Shadow King did even better in Psi-War, his trap that Psylocke triggered cascaded across the universe and knocked out all psi-related talents.
They have more varied feats too and both have faced the Phoenix (Unlimited Psionic Nexus) and lived. Emma Frost managed to blindside the Phoenix and escape in their first encounter. Xavier managed to actually take it down with Jeans help.
Also skill trumps power in the Marvel Telepathic Universe. You're talking about one of the most machiavellian woman in the MU and a self-proclaimed saint who is actually a bastard when it comes to abusing his powers. I see them both deploying some nasty tactics here.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Manchester is skilled, too. Plus he has more than just TP.
Black is skilled, but I don't see Maxwell Lord on the same level of skill as the other 3.
As for his TK, since TP is deployed faster the fight will most likely end up on the Astral Plane so their extra powers will be useless.
http://img141.imageshack.us/i/scan12ff6.jpg/
If not there's always this:
Don't forget he didn't just overwhelm every Psi, but countless telepathy-resistant people. Dr. Fate? Green Lanterns? Wonder Woman? All hard to affect at all, all hit.
Also skill trumps power in the Marvel Telepathic Universe. You're talking about one of the most machiavellian woman in the MU and a self-proclaimed saint who is actually a bastard when it comes to abusing his powers. I see them both deploying some nasty tactics here.
Skill matters, but power also matters a lot. If there's enough of a gap between telepaths mental barriers can be overwhelmed.
Originally posted by The Pict
Does Emma have many high-end telepathy feats? I know she regards herself as an "omega level telepath" but I just don't see it. [/B]
Emma is an established high end telepath and has a hell of a lot of high end telepathic feats. Especially in the last decade or so. As for the Omega Level thing, Xavier called her one too.
Originally posted by Q99
Don't forget he didn't just overwhelm every Psi, but countless telepathy-resistant people. Dr. Fate? Green Lanterns? Wonder Woman? All hard to affect at all, all hit.
Like I said Shadow King trap echoed across the universe, he shut down all telepathy/psi-talents. Mentallo hooked up to a machine did something similar, he got everyone but Iron Man. Take that as you will, for the sake of the plot Lord overwelmed the likes of TP immune beings. Same goes for Mastermind using the Sentry's powers to make the world forget.
It's a plot peeve, I'm sure there are countless feats from Dr. Fate, WW and GL's to counter being ambushed by TP. In fact WW is supposed to outright immune isn't she?
Emma's broadcasted her mutant message across the globe unaided and that even got through to TP resistant/immune mutants. Take it as you will.
Heck Marvel got smarter now, they used a magical virus to make everyone forget SpiderMans identity.
Skill matters, but power also matters a lot. If there's enough of a gap between telepaths mental barriers can be overwhelmed. [/B]
Rachel Grey is regarded as a Child of the Phoenix under Claremonts pen. She has unlimited reserves of TK and TP and got stomped by Emma because of her lack of skill.
Anyway does Lord have tech to regulate his body temp in this fight? Cause an unlimited blood supply is only going to get him so far.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Emma is an established high end telepath and has a hell of a lot of high end telepathic feats. Especially in the last decade or so. As for the Omega Level thing, Xavier called her one too.Like I said Shadow King trap echoed across the universe, he shut down all telepathy/psi-talents. Mentallo hooked up to a machine did something similar, he got everyone but Iron Man. Take that as you will, for the sake of the plot Lord overwelmed the likes of TP immune beings. Same goes for Mastermind using the Sentry's powers to make the world forget.
It's a plot peeve, I'm sure there are countless feats from Dr. Fate, WW and GL's to counter being ambushed by TP. In fact WW is supposed to outright immune isn't she?
Emma's broadcasted her mutant message across the globe unaided and that even got through to TP resistant/immune mutants. Take it as you will.
Heck Marvel got smarter now, they used a magical virus to make everyone forget SpiderMans identity.
Rachel Grey is regarded as a Child of the Phoenix under Claremonts pen. She has unlimited reserves of TK and TP and got stomped by Emma because of her lack of skill.
Anyway does Lord have tech to regulate his body temp in this fight? Cause an unlimited blood supply is only going to get him so far.
Yes, but it takes skill to by pass Dr. Fate's/MM psychic defenses. They don't need confrontation to know someone is messing with their minds. They can even detect beings from other dimensions screwing with their minds. Yet, Max did it with his OWN power. No cerebro or anything.
Originally posted by ExodusCloakso emma getting punked by quentin helps her case how?If not there's always this:
Originally posted by 753
so emma getting punked by quentin helps her case how?
Read the speech bubbles. Blocking TK with telepathy which won't happen cause the fight will end up on the astral plane. Besides. Also using one feat to say Maxwell Lord is as skilled as the other three is ludacris. Especially when it doesn't correlate with his other feats, he took years to get Superman under his thrawl. Clearly the power boost helped him ambush Fate and MM. He didn't receive an upgrade in skill when he was brought back.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
max didnt have as much blood back then either and wew know his future self can defeat mm. so its not out of the realm that he cant beat xavier. its not a stomp for either team.
It's a poor showing for those who should be immune/resistant on DC Earth. Much like with mentallo. Its plot induced. Unless your trying to say this version of max could take down both mm and fate.
And alternate futures aren't usuable.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's a poor showing for those who should be immune/resistant on DC Earth. Much like with mentallo. Its plot induced. Unless your trying to say this version of max could take down both mm and fate.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I'm saying.
Unlimited blood max is like Sundipped Superman or Odin Power Thor. It blows the normal version away, and even normal Max can overcome GLs face to face.
