Most Balanced and adaptive team - can you do better?

There's some really good versatile female characters, so no need to go 'token'. WW, Tomorrow Woman, Zat, etc..

Desaad

Her appearance in JLA: Obsidian Age also made clear that she had a number of limitations, with her shouting "That's not how magic works!" on more than one occasion, the Ray finding a way past magic (which was pretty awesome), etc. And yet in that same arc Gammanae using Zatanna's powers turned Promethium into paper.

Stuff like that, fun as it is in a team book situation, I think is a large part of why magic books almost never succeed. No rules, no structure, so tension is impossible to generate. How can you feel scared for a character can get out of anything through any plot device?

I like the comic Gold Digger for having a much more pinned down set of rules on magic. You've got some really powerful magic users, but also set limits and knowledge on how it works, and mages even have specific styles, so you can be all "Even Archmage Theo Diggers is in trouble against this one!" and such without worry that he'll just pull something out of no-where, and different mages can be good at different things.

Nova Prime
Martian Manhunter
Flash
Sersi
Dr. Strange
Black Panther
Hank Pym

If that's not a bad@$$ team, I don't know what is....

Originally posted by Q99
There's some really good versatile female characters, so no need to go 'token'. WW, Tomorrow Woman, Zat, etc..

I like the comic Gold Digger for having a much more pinned down set of rules on magic. You've got some really powerful magic users, but also set limits and knowledge on how it works, and mages even have specific styles, so you can be all "Even Archmage Theo Diggers is in trouble against this one!" and such without worry that he'll just pull something out of no-where, and different mages can be good at different things.

As a serious mysoginist all females are token out of the bedroom and kitchen..... (;-))

I've never read Gold Digger sounds good. Tell me more.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Nova Prime
Martian Manhunter
Flash
Sersi
Dr. Strange
Black Panther
Hank Pym

If that's not a bad@$$ team, I don't know what is....

Some interesting choices, give your reasons. Come on.

Originally posted by Q99
There's some really good versatile female characters, so no need to go 'token'. WW, Tomorrow Woman, Zat, etc..

I like the comic Gold Digger for having a much more pinned down set of rules on magic. You've got some really powerful magic users, but also set limits and knowledge on how it works, and mages even have specific styles, so you can be all "Even Archmage Theo Diggers is in trouble against this one!" and such without worry that he'll just pull something out of no-where, and different mages can be good at different things.

It's a problem that can't really be solved in a hodgepodge universe like Marvel and DC, where all these different types of magic and sets of magical dieties and sources exist concurrently.

When you've got one creator controlling the whole thing, and all magic stemming from the same place and generating the same type of thing, it's fairly easy. Like "Wheel of Time", where everyone operates on the same basic principals, and you can be told directly how powerful or skilled someone is and you can understand that, and you know someone isn't going to just say "Abra Kadabra" and stop time or whatever.

Micheal Moorcock actually wrote a magic bible for DC a good while back, but the only person who ever tried to put any of it into practice was Keith Giffen, and that was an abysmal failure on almost every level.

Not a lot of writers have really gotten it right. Brian K Vaughn did a great job with it in his Strange mini, Steve Gerber got around the whole idea by focusing on the internal rather than external struggles of his main character. Most writes just do whatever though -- which is what Dini is doing right now.

Originally posted by Desaad
Yeah, for the most part she's a plot device of a character, but that isn't how her limits are ALWAYS written.

You'll recall Reign in Hell, where it took everything she had to put Lobo down, and she spoke of a 'price' she had to pay for the spells she was using. The specific goal of that series was to put limitations on characters like her and Black Alice (who for a short while could only take powers from those in close proximity, though Gail Simone handily ignored that).

Her appearance in JLA: Obsidian Age also made clear that she had a number of limitations, with her shouting "That's not how magic works!" on more than one occasion, the Ray finding a way past magic (which was pretty awesome), etc. And yet in that same arc Gammanae using Zatanna's powers turned Promethium into paper.

Stuff like that, fun as it is in a team book situation, I think is a large part of why magic books almost never succeed. No rules, no structure, so tension is impossible to generate. How can you feel scared for a character can get out of anything through any plot device?

"Often" or "In the latest issue of her ongoing series" ? 🙂

She wasn't really doing everything in her power to put Lobo down. She wanted him to suffer. She was flaying off his skin and bleeding him out because she knew he could tank it. IIRC she just 'pots'd him anyway at the end.

And, taking JLA appearances into account, she's also had a number of limitation removals. She went through self training in which she practiced silently making her spells instantaneous and had some encounters in which she openly stated she only spoke backwards as a focus, and then proceeded to cast magic without speaking.

Not sure what you're getting at in that last sentence. I used instances from her ongoing as example, but I can also recall many instances of focus being her main weakness- aside from her natural frailty.

Originally posted by batdude123
Batman
Superman
Green Lantern
Flash
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Aquaman

Current Hulk (Wolverine type)
Runner (Speedster)
Super Skrull (Agile all rounder)
Sersi (useful token female)
Vulcan (Energy Manipulator and Brick)
Ghost Rider Unleashesd (more magic and a brick)
Batman (Tech and planning)

This team stomps

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Current Hulk (Wolverine type)
Zoom (Speedster)
Super Skrull (Agile all rounder)
Sersi (useful token female)
Vulcan (Energy Manipulator and Brick)
Ghost Rider Unleashesd (more magic and a brick)
Doom (Tech and planning)

This team stomps

Originally posted by byrdgang21
Current Hulk (Wolverine type)
Zoom (Speedster)
Super Skrull (Agile all rounder)
Sersi (useful token female)
Vulcan (Energy Manipulator and Brick)
Ghost Rider Unleashesd (more magic and a brick)
Doom (Tech and planning)

This team stomps

Great Team, Ghost Rider unleashed is like Zatanna a bigtime plot device. I did think about him, for my own team.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Martian Manhunter would be a much better sub for Super Skrull.

I like Super Skrull... he doesnt hold back like MM tends to

Originally posted by Sockittome

I've never read Gold Digger sounds good. Tell me more.

Long-running Indy series by Fred Perry/Antarctic Press in something of a kitchen sink setting. The main character, Gina Diggers, is an adventure archeologist (akin to Lara Croft and Indiana Johns, but she came *before* croft!) and a bit of a super-science gadgeteer.

The world has superheroes, most notably Agency Zero, which used to be their JLA equivalent until an incident where 40 heroes went up against a guy who spammed blasts of pure death that could one-shot Iron Man, at which point they went 'undercover,' the strongest members stayed around to fight crime but did so with 'zero presence' so as to not attracted the type of villains who come out just to prove how strong they are. Their superman is awesome, he can Freeze time but it hurts him to do so. They also have a dragon member. Gina's dad, an archmage, is a former/reserve member.

The world also has a close connection to another world, Jade, which is where all the magic stuff of Earth's past went to. Gina's mother Julia, who's basically female Conan crossed with Cassandra Cain (she would smack Cass around in a fight), comes from here.

Gina also has two sisters, Britanny, a werecheetah/martial artist (adopted), and Brianna, a gun nut/power armor user, who both help out on the adventure archeology stuff.

Then there's a big overarcing plot about a trio of incredibly ancient races and an oncoming mysterious threat that they ran from (it's always a good day when you find out the evil race called the Dynasty (somewhat inspired by the Guardians of the Universe and once called the 'Gardeners' before they turned evil) who eats planets to empower themselves is on the run and argues their eating worlds and throwing all the citizens of said worlds into 'soul furnaces' is a good thing, isn't it?).

Anyway, some of the characters from there are pretty versatile, and the magic's pretty well thought out.

Originally posted by byrdgang21
I like Super Skrull... he doesnt hold back like MM tends to

++

Originally posted by byrdgang21
I like Super Skrull... he doesnt hold back like MM tends to

Originally posted by Sockittome
Come on Big G reasons for each, don't be half assed ;-) let's have your justifications. Bythe way I like your choices. Firestorm in particular makes a lot of sense.

Zoom: Speed.
Shaman Nate: Massive TP/TK.
Beta Ray Bill: Hammer.
Firestorm: Extreme versatility.
Doom: Prep/magic.
Lobo: Strength/HF.
Superman (Tangent): Massive TP/TK, technopathy.

Originally posted by Sockittome
7 characters any Universe no one above Thor level-Surfer is banned due to no prick.

Lobo (Wolverine type)
Flash (Speedster)
Spiderman (Agile all rounder)
Zatanna (useful token female)
Energy Supes (Energy Manipulator and Brick)
Thor (more magic and a brick)
Reed Richards (Tech and planning)

Would love to have Warlock (Adam) in as well but could only pick 7

Originally posted by Sockittome
Some interesting choices, give your reasons. Come on.

Nova Prime - Pretty assertive as a leader during Annihilation and Thanos Imperative plus a team powerhouse
Martian Manhunter - Psi beast and flying versatile brick & smart to boot
Flash - not many are as fast plus the team needs an all around happy go lucky guy.
Sersi - super versatile with her matter manip and a team hottie
Dr. Strange - will take care of all things magical in nature
Black Panther - the street level guy who happens to be full of other talents (all around bad@$$ a la Bruce Wayne)
Hank Pym - Team super genius and just supercool!

I would love to have added Mr. Terrific, went with Pym instead.

Originally posted by Konton
She wasn't really doing everything in her power to put Lobo down. She wanted him to suffer. She was flaying off his skin and bleeding him out because she knew he could tank it. IIRC she just 'pots'd him anyway at the end.

Yeah, but the effort of it caused her to be essentially powerless next issue, puking up darkness when she next tried to do a spell.

And, taking JLA appearances into account, she's also had a number of limitation removals. She went through self training in which she practiced silently making her spells instantaneous and had some encounters in which she openly stated she only spoke backwards as a focus, and then proceeded to cast magic without speaking.

Yup, and then those were promptly ignored, since talking backwards is essentially her signature thing.

Not sure what you're getting at in that last sentence. I used instances from her ongoing as example, but I can also recall many instances of focus being her main weakness- aside from her natural frailty.

I'm saying that the two things you mentioned there as happening often were specific things that happened in the latest issue of her ongoing series, and in the same action sequence of the latest issue. I just thought it was funny that you phrased it as if you were cobbling together showings from all around, when it just happened as she was stopping some robbers, basically. Nothing more substantive than that.

Still, I think her place on the magic totem has probably been solidified is a solid couple of tiers below the likes of Fate, Strange, Arion, etc. Swamp Thing had her chilling with the small timers instead of facing the monster with the big boys, which is where Fate was, and I recall her mentioning that she would have been way outgunned by Arion in Camelot Falls (were he at his Lord of Order prime).

Not trying to down play her here, since she is so crazy effective against non mages, but I think we get a better idea of her relative standing when we compare her to more similar beings.

Wolverine
Bone Claw Wolverine
Brood Wolverine
Satan Wolverine
Vishanti Wolverine
Vampire Wolverine
Symbiote Wolverine

1) Cannonball
2) Exodus
3) Blink
4) Magneto
5) Multiple Man
6) Mimic
7) Batman

OR

1) Maxima
2) Sersi
3) Cassandra Nova
4) Wonder Woman
5) Star Saphire
6) Nova (Frankie)
7) Gladiator (Because of 1-6 boosting confidence)