Are soldiers 'heroes'

Originally posted by skekUng
Are you asking when jihadists took westerners hostage and beheaded them, as though it hasn't happened? Or are you seriously asking me for examples?

When I was in the SBS I saw all sorts of brutality from soldiers and marines to the conquered nations we had been sent in to 'save'.

I think the better question would be then, is patriotism a heroic ideal. Because soldiers (on the national level which is what I assume we're talking about) are inherently 'patriots'.

It's not the particular person but rather the role and ideal they are fighting for.

Mmmm... I'm not sure patriotism by itself is heroic. There are plenty of patriotic Americans who are not heroes.

I'd say the ideal of a soldier is someone who lays his/her life on the line in order to protect innocent civilians. That is heroic. But it's up to the individual person to live up to that ideal, and not everyone does.

So again, I'd say you can't really say all soldiers are heroes or all soldiers aren't.

Soldiers are people who obey leaders, a soldier follows an order without question. Rarely are soldiers fighting to protect their own nation in Western terms. Usually they are out to further the politcal aims of there own country and its allies. Certainly in the west. They are the enforcers of imperialism.

The moment you squeeze the trigger you're a justified villain. Your intentions are admirable and there's no manner of questioning morale. I appreciate all the good that soldiers do but a life is a life, regardless of justification.

Soldiers aren't heroes to me. Not those who kill to get their way at least. There are soldiers who does what they can for peace rather than to settle war and those are so close to my heart that I can feel them. Love them. Heroes 🙂 The pulling of that trigger just ruin everything to me.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
The moment you squeeze the trigger you're a justified villain. Your intentions are admirable and there's no manner of questioning morale. I appreciate all the good that soldiers do but a life is a life, regardless of justification.

Soldiers aren't heroes to me. Not those who kill to get their way at least. There are soldiers who does what they can for peace rather than to settle war and those are so close to my heart that I can feel them. Love them. Heroes 🙂 The pulling of that trigger just ruin everything to me.

Any soldier will pull that trigger or burn that village if ordered to.

That's what they do, follow orders.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
The moment you squeeze the trigger you're a justified villain. Your intentions are admirable and there's no manner of questioning morale. I appreciate all the good that soldiers do but a life is a life, regardless of justification.

Soldiers aren't heroes to me. Not those who kill to get their way at least. There are soldiers who does what they can for peace rather than to settle war and those are so close to my heart that I can feel them. Love them. Heroes 🙂 The pulling of that trigger just ruin everything to me.

Sometimes killing is necessary to protect innocent people. If it comes down to killing a terrorist, or letting them kill civilians, pulling the trigger on him does not make you a villain. Not in my eyes.

Obviously the world would be better off without killing people, but that just isn't the way the world works.

Originally posted by Notorious1
Any soldier will pull that trigger or burn that village if ordered to.

That's what they do, follow orders.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Sometimes killing is necessary to protect innocent people. If it comes down to killing a terrorist, or letting them kill civilians, pulling the trigger on him does not make you a villain. Not in my eyes.

Obviously the world would be better off without killing people, but that just isn't the way the world works.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
Not always. There are those who says no and are willing to face the consequences, bless their souls 🙂

They get shot for treason in a war.

And die better men than the executioners and court ever will be.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
And die better men than the executioners and court ever will be.

I agree although they are villified by the press as commies etc.

It's been long since I saw pacifists being called commies but I get your point. Still, the press has been wrong before. Few are foolish enough to read it blindly. If the press want to damage the confidence intelligent people have in them, that's their choice 😛

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
It's been long since I saw pacifists being called commies but I get your point. Still, the press has been wrong before. Few are foolish enough to read it blindly. If the press want to damage the confidence intelligent people have in them, that's their choice 😛

Almost every tabloid reader reads it blindly.

🙂

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
It's an overwhelmingly common argument to use the hypothesis of protecting innocents and while I have all the love in the world for innocents, violence always cause more violence. It's not a perfect philosophy and I myself would kill for innocents. That doesn't mean I'd consider myself or the soldier a hero. Just justified 🙂 Hero is a hard title to be received from me.

You said it made them a villain, though.

Do you think it's wrong to kill to protect innocents?

Originally posted by Notorious1
They get shot for treason in a war.

They most certainly do not. shock

Not legally anyway.

Originally posted by TacDavey
You said it made them a villain, though.

Do you think it's [B]wrong to kill to protect innocents?

They most certainly do not. shock

Not legally anyway. [/B]

I would post a link about British soldiers, treason and desertion, but I can't youngster.

Originally posted by TacDavey
You said it made them a villain, though.

Do you think it's [B]wrong to kill to protect innocents?[/B]

I stand by that. It's a horrible thing of me to say, I know so. I have an almost religious belief that all life is sacred though. Whatever the intention and however good a person you are, killing is a villainous act. So is doing nothing though, so you're pretty much screwed there 😛 This is just my belief though. I'm extremely opposed killing. You have no idea.

Not at all. Not in any way, Heavens no! I love anyone who does it 😐 I do still think it's wrong to kill. Like I said, I myself would kill to protect innocents. Without a doubt in my mind.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
I stand by that. It's a horrible thing of me to say, I know so. I have an almost religious belief that all life is sacred though. Whatever the intention and however good a person you are, killing is a villainous act. So is doing nothing though, so you're pretty much screwed there 😛 This is just my belief though. I'm extremely opposed killing. You have no idea.

Not at all. Not in any way, Heavens no! I love anyone who does it 😐 I do still think it's wrong to kill. Like I said, I myself would kill to protect innocents. Without a doubt in my mind.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
I stand by that. It's a horrible thing of me to say, I know so. I have an almost religious belief that all life is sacred though. Whatever the intention and however good a person you are, killing is a villainous act. So is doing nothing though, so you're pretty much screwed there 😛 This is just my belief though. I'm extremely opposed killing. You have no idea.

Not at all. Not in any way, Heavens no! I love anyone who does it 😐 I do still think it's wrong to kill. Like I said, I myself would kill to protect innocents. Without a doubt in my mind.

😂 You aren't making a lot of sense here...

You are saying that it isn't wrong to kill to protect innocents, but it's a villainous act? How can it be a villainous act and not be wrong?

... 🤨 You love those who kill to protect innocents... but think they are villains at the same time? And the fact that you would kill to protect innocents without a doubt in your mind supposes that you would consider killing, in that situation, the right choice to make. No one would perform an action that they honestly thought was the wrong thing to do. But at the same time... 😖

My head hurts. So, to sum it all up. You consider everyone a villain.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Mmmm... I'm not sure patriotism by itself is heroic. There are plenty of patriotic Americans who are not heroes.

I'd say the ideal of a soldier is someone who lays his/her life on the line in order to protect innocent civilians. That is heroic. But it's up to the individual person to live up to that ideal, and not everyone does.

So again, I'd say you can't really say all soldiers are heroes or all soldiers aren't.

I don't think that is the case. We can examine the Vietnam War and certaintly U.S. soldiers were not going out of their way to protect innocent civilians.

Perhaps we can examine the British Empire with their involvement in Zululand and such, the soldiers weren't protecting anything except the interest of their specific nations.

A soldier (nationally), in pure definition, is someone who serves in the armed forces of their specific nation.

What a specific soldier does within this role is irrelevant as that boils down to the personality.

Therefore, the pure ideal of a soldier then would be to serve their country to their fullest potential as they are members of that nations armed forces. As Notorious said, at that level is becomes more of following orders than anything else.
e.g. protecting the nations interests, etc. Regardless of the cost and means.

In this way, I see no reason to call them heroic as they are merely following orders. I am sure if you were to ask a soldier if he/she was a hero they would rightfully decline it.

EDIT:

What I am saying is that I do not think a role can be considered heroic. Whereas, a specific person perhaps within that role could be 'heroic'.

This can be then applied to all roles in society, not just soldiers.
If a mailman saves someone who is hurt, is he/she then a hero too?