At last, I finally see. Baby Boomers are everything wrong with society.

Originally posted by inimalist
hmmm, maybe I'm using the wrong term

I wasn't synthesizing it from base chemicals, but rather extracting the DMT from a plant that naturally produces it.

in fact, the method I would have used could also have removed psilopsybin from mushrooms or thc from weed.

but, no, I totally remember being shocked at how easy it seemed it was going to be to make it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh, OK. That changes it entirely. Yes, they are difficult in different ways. Synthesis is chemically complex, but extraction requires acquiring the actual product first.

ah, ok

again, this shows how little I actually understand what it is I'm talking about.

I love that the anti-Boomer/hippie thread turned in to a discussion about drug production.

Originally posted by inimalist
no, I loved it. I still go to "raves".

I don't go as nuts with the e as I used to, but if I still knew where to get pure MDMA, I'd be all over that. K is different, I'd very quickly become addicted to it, so I have to make sure I don't open that door, and only do it as a binge (I had a ball of it this summer, haven't touched it since).

Other than that, I think we are saying pretty much the same thing, only you put it in a much less convoluted way than I did 🙂

Do you think it sprang up for the same reasons as did the hippie/boomer movement, though?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I love that the anti-Boomer/hippie thread turned in to a discussion about drug production.

Originally posted by inimalist
ah, ok

again, this shows how little I actually understand what it is I'm talking about.

Originally posted by skekUng
Do you think it sprang up for the same reasons as did the hippie/boomer movement, though?

no

not to racialize it or anything, but I think raves were more an expression of dissident white middle/lower class kids who, honestly, had nothing else to do.

people for whom the mainstream culture really didn't appeal.

I tend to tie hippies into the culture of civil reform that was going on in the 60s, like Kandy talks about in his "we need the draft back" thread, whereas ravers, for the most part, I didn't see as being that socially conscious.

imho, it was a much more self-centered movement. not that it is a bad thing, just that it was a response more to personal feelings of alienation rather than rebellion against specific social and cultural contexts.

though, I suppose you could argue that allienation comes from contexts or that hippes also felt alienated...

Originally posted by inimalist
no

not to racialize it or anything, but I think raves were more an expression of dissident white middle/lower class kids who, honestly, had nothing else to do.

people for whom the mainstream culture really didn't appeal.

I tend to tie hippies into the culture of civil reform that was going on in the 60s, like Kandy talks about in his "we need the draft back" thread, whereas ravers, for the most part, I didn't see as being that socially conscious.

imho, it was a much more self-centered movement. not that it is a bad thing, just that it was a response more to personal feelings of alienation rather than rebellion against specific social and cultural contexts.

though, I suppose you could argue that allienation comes from contexts or that hippes also felt alienated...

I could point to dozens of factors that caused hippies to come into being: mass protest, the war in vietnam, cultural dissatisfaction and overeducation, the heritage from the "beat" movement, and, of course, the drugs themselves. I would say, the movement happened in stages.

1st stage: intelligentsia helps create concepts behind movement (influence from "beat", largely within the domain of authors like Ken Kesey, Ginsberg, etc or scientific perspectives like the LSD-psychiatrists and Dr. Leary).

2nd stage: Actual intelligent class of youth who would have made up higher educated class of the next generation, who are inspired by these concepts (anti-war movement, alternative forms of religion, and general dissatisfaction).

3rd stage: Rank-and-file youth, who were attracted by the concepts of the 2nd stage, that is, "free love" and mind enhancing of drugs ("woodstock" phase).

This is oversimplifying it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Hey, i'm just going off 1st year lab chem and being a generally scientific minded person.

lol

so, I got into uni as a religion and culture student, intent on switching into political science.

Even my degree in psychology is a BA, I'm enrolled in an MA program

I think I might have 2 senior high school science credits

all I'm saying is I'm defering to your expertise on this one

Originally posted by King Kandy
You could replace raver and hippie in almost any of those sentences, and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. While hippies do relate to the civil rights movement, I think alienation had just as much, or even more, of a role. This was coming off of the fifties and by and large, it was the blandest culture any middle-class white kid could have been raised in.

I could point to dozens of factors that caused hippies to come into being: mass protest, the war in vietnam, cultural dissatisfaction and overeducation, the heritage from the "beat" movement, and, of course, the drugs themselves. I would say, the movement happened in stages.

1st stage: intelligentsia helps create concepts behind movement (influence from "beat", largely within the domain of authors like Ken Kesey, Ginsberg, etc or scientific perspectives like the LSD-psychiatrists and Dr. Leary).

2nd stage: Actual intelligent class of youth who would have made up higher educated class of the next generation, who are inspired by these concepts (anti-war movement, alternative forms of religion, and general dissatisfaction).

3rd stage: Rank-and-file youth, who were attracted by the concepts of the 2nd stage, that is, "free love" and mind enhancing of drugs ("woodstock" phase).

This is oversimplifying it.

fair enough, I'm really only talking from experience on this.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

so, I got into uni as a religion and culture student, intent on switching into political science.

Even my degree in psychology is a BA, I'm enrolled in an MA program

I think I might have 2 senior high school science credits

all I'm saying is I'm defering to your expertise on this one

Originally posted by King Kandy
They don't make you take science credits for psychology?

nope, the bachelor of arts program did not

stats would be the closest thing

messed up eh?

I took psychology with only one high school science credit. Nearly failed it too.

Originally posted by inimalist
nope, the bachelor of arts program did not

stats would be the closest thing

[b]messed up eh? [/B]

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, it is. Suddenly, I don't feel inclined to take your word on every science-related topic we discuss anymore.

no, you really shouldn't

I know the brain, and a lot of the philosophical stuff

Originally posted by King Kandy
I was told that a 2nd year biochem student could reasonably make LSD... however, I was also told by others that it would require grad student level knowledge. net summary: I have no idea.

Sorry for the grammar, it's pretty early here and I have a cold 😛

Originally posted by Parmaniac
In my first semester in organic chemsitry we were synthesizing something in the lab the guy who was supposed to have an eye on us (he was a student himself but far ahead with his stuff) said that there's only 1 substance and 1 step of synthesis missing to create heroin.

Sorry for the grammar, it's pretty early here and I have a cold 😛

I think LSD is more complex than Heroin, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by inimalist
no

not to racialize it or anything, but I think raves were more an expression of dissident white middle/lower class kids who, honestly, had nothing else to do.

people for whom the mainstream culture really didn't appeal.

I tend to tie hippies into the culture of civil reform that was going on in the 60s, like Kandy talks about in his "we need the draft back" thread, whereas ravers, for the most part, I didn't see as being that socially conscious.

imho, it was a much more self-centered movement. not that it is a bad thing, just that it was a response more to personal feelings of alienation rather than rebellion against specific social and cultural contexts.

though, I suppose you could argue that allienation comes from contexts or that hippes also felt alienated...

"people for whom the mainstream culture really didn't appeal."

I read this first, obviously, and instantly thought that the difference between the hippies and the ravers was that the culture that followed the hippie's change in priority was what created the impetus for the ravers. The ravers, to me at least, seemed like a collection of social outcasts who had pretty much only that in common. I supposed it could be argued it was exactly the same with the hippies. But it wasn't just rebelling against the establishment and changing the establishment to accept them. For the ravers I always got the sense that it was an attitude that nothing could be done about how the establishment felt about them, so why not get together in this sheik underground and bemoan our lot in life together. Hippies wanted to change the world to feel accepted. Ravers wanted the world to stay exactly the same so they could relish being the outcasts.

But, you really touched on that later on in your post.

This thread started off really awesome but now it sucks.

Originally posted by skekUng
"people for whom the mainstream culture really didn't appeal."

I read this first, obviously, and instantly thought that the difference between the hippies and the ravers was that the culture that followed the hippie's change in priority was what created the impetus for the ravers. The ravers, to me at least, seemed like a collection of social outcasts who had pretty much only that in common. I supposed it could be argued it was exactly the same with the hippies. But it wasn't just rebelling against the establishment and changing the establishment to accept them. For the ravers I always got the sense that it was an attitude that nothing could be done about how the establishment felt about them, so why not get together in this sheik underground and bemoan our lot in life together. Hippies wanted to change the world to feel accepted. Ravers wanted the world to stay exactly the same so they could relish being the outcasts.

But, you really touched on that later on in your post.