KK has better skills (arguably the best out of the "standard" range of characters), but I can't see him winning a conventional fight against Achilles -- the latter just is too strong/durable, and his Grace is a match for KK's superior skill/combat finesse, or at the very least can mitigate them long enough to land a solid blow.
If rating pure combat skill, the KK would take the solid majority.
In a general fight, however, Achilles should take the solid...
Originally posted by tideoftimevery well put
KK has better skills (arguably the best out of the "standard" range of characters), but I can't see him winning a conventional fight against Achilles -- the latter just is too strong/durable, and his Grace is a match for KK's superior skill/combat finesse, or at the very least can mitigate them long enough to land a solid blow.If rating pure combat skill, the KK would take the solid majority.
In a general fight, however, Achilles should take the solid...
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Val.
How?
Not being confrontational, but I'm really at a loss as to how Val would get any non-circumstantial wins (again, in the broader range of combat --- there's no question that KK has better martial skills than practically anyone); Achilles can dodge/evade multiple machinegun fire with ease, and even the focused attacks of superfast/skilled opponents (like Wonder Woman, who had to resort to sweeping attacks and using her flight to really lay on him, and even then it was later revealed that he was "conflicted", and has the "Glads" weakness of not being as strong/fast when "conflicted about his purpose"馃槈.
Again, if you could at least describe *how* Val could get wins (let alone a majority), I'd be more than happy to see where you're coming from.
Collosus BigC: Thank you.
Originally posted by tideoftime How? Not being confrontational, but I'm really at a loss as to how Val would get any non-circumstantial wins (again, in the broader range of combat --- there's no question that KK has better martial skills than practically anyone); Achilles can dodge/evade multiple machinegun fire with ease, and even the focused attacks of superfast/skilled opponents (like Wonder Woman, who had to resort to sweeping attacks and using her flight to really lay on him, and even then it was later revealed that he was "conflicted", and has the "Glads" weakness of not being as strong/fast when "conflicted about his purpose"馃槈. Again, if you could at least describe *how* Val could get wins (let alone a majority), I'd be more than happy to see where you're coming from. Collosus BigC: Thank you.
first which val is this? currently there is no val in legion. they are searching for him. anyway pc val has faced tougher opponents in superboy and monel. invulnerability doesnt mean anything since he can find any weak point. also his master white crane taught val how to take on meta humans so achilles isnt anything new. val is much more skilled and fast to boot.
zero hour val would do the same. 3boot val would lose.
Originally posted by Prep-ManWho said this was pc ? Why would you assume pc anything if pc isn't stated.
first which val is this? currently there is no val in legion. they are searching for him. anyway pc val has faced tougher opponents in superboy and monel. invulnerability doesnt mean anything since he can find any weak point. also his master white crane taught val how to take on meta humans so achilles isnt anything new. val is much more skilled and fast to boot.zero hour val would do the same. 3boot val would lose.
Originally posted by quanchi112the funny part about it is that you merley "faced" that person you may of got curbstomped or one shotted by him yet people use this abc logic 馃槅
Facing tougher opponents means absolutely nothing. It's like me saying I can beat you in basketball because I faced michael jordan and charles barkley. It's just horrible logic.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big CI know I cringe when I see people makes these mistakes. It's such bad debating.
the funny part about it is that you merley "faced" that person you may of got curbstomped or one shotted by him yet people use this abc logic 馃槅
Can't wait to tell someone I will beat you at bball because I faced m. jordan.
I'm going with tideoftime's reasoning here.
Achilles fights until he gets lucky and lands a hit (which between being pretty skilled and having much higher stats, he eventually will), then things go down hill for Karate Kid. War Killer'll outlast him, basically (higher toughness, regen, Grace that makes him very hard to hit).
Originally posted by Prep-Man
So. how does Achilles win? Anyone.
Guess I'll just go ahead and reprint my original further up post... as it already explained how Achilles' would do that...
>KK has better skills (arguably the best out of the "standard" range of characters), but I can't see him winning a conventional fight against Achilles -- the latter just is too strong/durable, and his Grace is a match for KK's superior skill/combat finesse, or at the very least can mitigate them long enough to land a solid blow.
If rating pure combat skill, the KK would take the solid majority.
In a general fight, however, Achilles should take the solid...<
All Achilles has to do is land just one or two solid hits, and KK will be stunned (and, arguably, that's being generous in KK's favor, in terms of durability) -- he then moves in for the submission. KK's superior/paranormal-level MA ability to discern weak-points won't be as effective against Achilles as many others because he (KK) will have a difficult time getting his hands on A; even with a Legion flight ring, he still won't have the speed/aerial maneuvers to peg-down A, like WW or similar did/would.
Originally posted by tideoftime
Guess I'll just go ahead and reprint my original further up post... as it already explained how Achilles' would do that...>KK has better skills (arguably the best out of the "standard" range of characters), but I can't see him winning a conventional fight against Achilles -- the latter just is too strong/durable, and his Grace is a match for KK's superior skill/combat finesse, or at the very least can mitigate them long enough to land a solid blow.
If rating pure combat skill, the KK would take the solid majority.
In a general fight, however, Achilles should take the solid...<
All Achilles has to do is land just one or two solid hits, and KK will be stunned (and, arguably, that's being generous in KK's favor, in terms of durability) -- he then moves in for the submission. KK's superior/paranormal-level MA ability to discern weak-points won't be as effective against Achilles as many others because he (KK) will have a difficult time getting his hands on A; even with a Legion flight ring, he still won't have the speed/aerial maneuvers to peg-down A, like WW or similar did/would.
Val has taken blows from top tiers and still managed to continue the fight.
Durability? Val has broken the toughest metals in the universe and shattered the Emerald Eye of Ekron. He'd shatter any weapon Achilles brings.
You act like Val is a normal fighter with normal human stats. Wrong on all accounts. He can amp up his stats and has managed to dodge things like lightning, speedsters, and sparred with Ultra Boy. Not to mention owned Timber Wolf with ease.
Achilles brings nothing new to the table.