Best Strategist

I've been following X-Men, and it seems now that Cyclops has taken over, his plans for a victory always seem to get him the win. So far he's outsmarted Dracula and his son and not to long ago he out did a power house of a team in Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers. I usually only see this level of strategy from the likes of Black Panther, Batman, Dr. Doom, and once even Wolverine as leader of X-Force. I'm not asking for intelligence, but more of those people who can pull a win when all odds are against them.

Originally posted by EvilTyrant
I've been following X-Men, and it seems now that Cyclops has taken over, his plans for a victory always seem to get him the win. So far he's outsmarted Dracula and his son and not to long ago he out did a power house of a team in Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers. I usually only see this level of strategy from the likes of Black Panther, Batman, Dr. Doom, and once even Wolverine as leader of X-Force. I'm not asking for intelligence, but more of those people who can pull a win when all odds are against them.

But in terms of strategy:
Dr. Doom
Pete Wisdom
T'Challa
Dracula
Cyclops

That's just in my opinion, very few characters actually have to wage warsso it's hard to say how others compare.

Originally posted by Trackz
He didn't outsmart Dracula but he's up there.

But in terms of strategy:
Dr. Doom
Pete Wisdom
T'Challa
Dracula
Cyclops

That's just in my opinion, very few characters actually have to wage warsso it's hard to say how others compare.

Over at DC, you've got Adam Strange and Vril Dox/'Brainiac 2' up there.

If you're talking overcoming the odds then John Constantine is probably among the best in either company.

Drax the destroyer (last incarnation)
Thanos
Steve Rodgers
Nova Prime
Frank Castle
Tao
Kang
Starlord

Thanos and well...... just Thanos.

Frank castle and cyclops are completely different, it's debatable who's better, Frank always devises great plans in order to slay his opponents but in my opinion overcoming overwhelming odds and leading a nation is much greater.

Originally posted by EvilTyrant
I've been following X-Men, and it seems now that Cyclops has taken over, his plans for a victory always seem to get him the win. So far he's outsmarted Dracula and his son and not to long ago he out did a power house of a team in Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers. I usually only see this level of strategy from the likes of Black Panther, Batman, Dr. Doom, and once even Wolverine as leader of X-Force. I'm not asking for intelligence, but more of those people who can pull a win when all odds are against them.

Are you talking about strategy or tactics? I ask because some of the suggestions I've been reading are, IMO, more tacticians than strategist.

Strategy refers to a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal. In military usage strategy is distinct from tactics, which are concerned with the conduct of an engagement, while strategy is concerned with how different engagements are linked. How a battle is fought is a matter of tactics: the terms and conditions that it is fought on and whether it should be fought at all is a matter of strategy.

Most of the time in comics, villains are better strategist and the hero is a better tactician in the one battle that actually matters. There are some heroes that defy that mold such as:

[list]
[*]Scott Summers is a strategist. Once was the case that Xavier was the strategist and Scott was the ultimate tactician in the X-men but things have changed. (think current Mutant Nation Leader).

[*]Tony Starks is a strategist (think during Civil War/Illuminati/SHIELD)

[*]Bruce Wayne is a strategist (Always. He's the Goddamn Batman)
[/list][list]

Then you have your tacticians, which can be both hero or villian. People like:

[*]Nightwing who is, IMO, the ultimate tactician. He's probably DC earths greatest leader, but he makes for a better battle to battle leader than overall picture leader.

[*]Dr. Doom is a self serving opportunist and is remarkable for being both a great strategist but an even better tactician.
[/list]

As far as the stated question, I have to give the nod to Batman. He has contingency plans for every single hero he's encountered, has War Game scenarios for every single variable that may happen in Gotham, and deals with his main mission - ridding crime in Gotham - even while handicapping himself by not killing or using guns.

But due to the fact that the hero never truly achieves their goals, something which is inherent in their design, I'd have to say Tony Stark and Scott are right there with Batman (who has, of yet, not made Gotham crime free). Tony won the Civil War and Scott is doing what both Xavier and Magneto couldn't.

^ I'd say Nightwing is second fiddle to Deathstroke in terms of tactics.

I'll say professor X and Cyclops are near the top in marvel.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
^ I'd say Nightwing is second fiddle to Deathstroke in terms of tactics.

I'd challenge that in terms of personal vs team based tactics. Nightwing is a force multiplier. He gets better when he directs others in a team based setting. Deathstroke is more of a personal tactician, doing everything solo. I think they both excel in different scenarios.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I'd challenge that in terms of personal vs team based tactics. Nightwing is a force multiplier. He gets better when he directs others in a team based setting. Deathstroke is more of a personal tactician, doing everything solo. I think they both excel in different scenarios.

Yes, excellent point. Nightwing connects with his teammates and thus can coax more out of them than a purely analytical type and add that to his plans. Batman has admitted as much.

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Another quite high up DC tactician is Wonder Woman, which gets overlooked. She on-the-fly dismantled the JLA without prep, and has shown very rapid adjustment of tactics to difficult situations, like when she fought the Citizenry (who's soldiers used GL-derived personal shields and blasters).

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, excellent point. Nightwing connects with his teammates and thus can coax more out of them than a purely analytical type and add that to his plans. Batman has admitted as much.

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Another quite high up DC tactician is Wonder Woman, which gets overlooked. She on-the-fly dismantled the JLA without prep, and has shown very rapid adjustment of tactics to difficult situations, like when she fought the Citizenry (who's soldiers used GL-derived personal shields and blasters).

Originally posted by Trackz
Like Blair Wind said, there's a difference between strategist and tactician, at least ho we're defining them here.

Quite true.

I'll again mention Vril Dox- latest REBELS series, he started out with his enemy army pulled out from under him and used against him against a foe that had conquered galaxies, and what former friends he did have hesitant to help him if at all. And, eventually, his own son, who's smarter than him (12th degree vs 10th) joined the opposition to boot.

The problem is most of these people aren't leading conquesting armies.

Highfather from New Gen is up there
Darkseid
Reed Richards
Dr. Doom
Skrull Queen from Secret invasion.
Nick Fury.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If you're talking overcoming the odds then John Constantine is probably among the best in either company.

This.

Cyclops was always that good. It's not exatcly a new thing that he's outsmarting people like Osborn...

In Marvel i'd have him on the same level as most, including Cap...

And he's both a strategist and a tactician, etc.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If you're talking overcoming the odds then John Constantine is probably among the best in either company.

He's pretty much the king of planning and strategy.

I mean, in Ennis' run alone he takes on two near Lucifer/Michael level beings, (FotF and Gabriel) and comes out on top...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cyclops was always that good. It's not exatcly a new thing that he's outsmarting people like Osborn...

In Marvel i'd have him on the same level as most, including Cap...

And he's both a strategist and a tactician, etc.