Originally posted by EvilTyrant
True, I always thought he was up there with the best in these areas, i'm glad that Marvel is showing his ability more now. I like this version of Cyclops. I guess that merge with Apocalypse was for the better.
I hate this version of Cyclops. They could have made him a brilliant tactician and leader without totally raping his character.
Originally posted by -Pr-
blame fraction and yost.
I do, mate, no worries there.
I blame Fraction more. In X-Force they needed someone to authorise the team. Only Cyclops had the authority to do so in X-Men. Only choice Yost had there.
Would be better if the entire series didn't exist, though I do love Wolverine and X-23.
Originally posted by The Pict
I do, mate, no worries there.I blame Fraction more. In X-Force they needed someone to authorise the team. Only Cyclops had the authority to do so in X-Men. Only choice Yost had there.
Would be better if the entire series didn't exist, though I do love Wolverine and X-23.
oh, its definitely more fraction's fault. him and land make uncanny unreadable for me most of the time.
Originally posted by -Pr-
oh, its definitely more fraction's fault. him and land make uncanny unreadable for me most of the time.
I don't mind Land's art too much, except that all the female characters look pretty much the same.
What bothers me is how Cyclops is seen as the Mutant leader now, cool getting his props. Plans the whole Utopia thing.
But then throws his friends blindly against Bastion in an attempt to get Hope to Utopia. Nightcrawler and the rest of the X-Men didn't know about Bastion and the Nimrods because Cyclops kept the whole X-Force thing secret. WTF?! How is Cyclops still in charge?
Hopefully we'll see a change with the whole Heroic Age thing.
Tao and John Lynch- These two played the ultimate game of chess during the Wildstorm era.
Adam Warlock- Lead and organized the heroes to save the universe during the infinity saga. Got into Thanos's head, which goes without saying is damn hard to do. His actions over the years have lead to the universe being saved on multiple occasions.
Nova Prime- Organized and lead the United Front in the single greatest war in Marvel history. Was able to hold off the Annihilation wave despite the wave having overwhelmingly superior numbers as well as aide from Thanos. Ultimately provided the means to vanquish Ultron during Annihilation: Conquest. Founded and lead the "Cosmic Annihilators" in a raid of Mar-Vell's base of operations and ultimately helped end the war with the cancer-verse. Proven battlefield tactician that always seemed to pull a win out of nowhere.
Kang- Conquered multiple realities and timelines. Gave the Guardians of the Galaxy the means to defeat Magus.
Thanos of Titan. Does he really need an explanation?
Nova Prime- Organized and lead the United Front in the single greatest war in Marvel history. Was able to hold off the Annihilation wave despite the wave having overwhelmingly superior numbers as well as aide from Thanos. Ultimately provided the means to vanquish Ultron during Annihilation: Conquest. Founded and lead the "Cosmic Annihilators" in a raid of Mar-Vell's base of operations and ultimately helped end the war with the cancer-verse. Proven battlefield tactician that always seemed to pull a win out of nowhere.
I think Richard Rider is an awesome leader, but the others are more brilliant strategists directly, he just knows how to organize and use the right people.
He used Star-Lord a lot for strategy during the Annihilation Wave, for example.
Which reminds me: Star-Lord.
TAO and Bendix are two of the best, definitely.
Batman, Nightwing, Darkseid, Vandal Savage, Martian Manhunter, and Vril Dox for the DCU. Strangely, Sinestro is probably the single most SUCCESSFUL villain in either universe, but I digress.
Red Skull, Cyclops, Dr. Doom, Norman Osborne, Tony Stark...
Probably a lot more for Marvel, though I specifically left off Captain America (who I see as a stronger tactician than strategist) and Reed Richards (who is an innovator but not so focused on strategy).
Originally posted by Q99
Over at DC, you've got Adam Strange and Vril Dox/'Brainiac 2' up there.
Adam Strange is a tactician. He's not plannign out long term strategies, he's figuring stuff out on the fly, working with what he has and using it for the win. That's what Hal Jordan does to.
The best delineation I've ever seen is the Orion/Lightray relationship -- Orion will figure out how to win any 1v1 battle using what he's got in the area. Lightray is looking at the war, and plans and waits and uses indirect techniques to win the day.
Or Athena/Ares over at Marvel.
Originally posted by Q99I'm not sure I follow. A key part of strategy is formulating a plan and using the right people for the right job. I never said he was the best, but I'd put his record up against anyone else in comics in terms of battlefield tactics and strategy either with prep or on the fly. Anyone want to see me about it, make the thread and lets go.
I think Richard Rider is an awesome leader, but the others are more brilliant strategists directly, he just knows how to organize and use the right people.He used Star-Lord a lot for strategy during the Annihilation Wave, for example.
Which reminds me: Star-Lord.
Originally posted by dmills
I'm not sure I follow. A key part of strategy is formulating a plan and using the right people for the right job. I never said he was the best, but I'd put his record up against anyone else in comics in terms of battlefield tactics and strategy either with prep or on the fly. Anyone want to see me about it, make the thread and lets go.
Listening to a great strategist is smart, but on it's own it doesn't make one a high-level strategist. Rider doesn't think up most of the strategies his army used, he was the leader, not the strategist.
By himself he's a good tactician but I don't really think of him as a strategist much.
Originally posted by Q99So in essense your saying that he was a token general. We'll examine this further when I finish eating. Ttyl.
Listening to a great strategist is smart, but on it's own it doesn't make one a high-level strategist. Rider doesn't think up most of the strategies his army used, he was the leader, not the strategist.By himself he's a good tactician but I don't really think of him as a strategist much.