If it were a fair fight and Team 2 didn't have prep time you'd be right. But because they do and they have knowledge on Frieza's power, they can just kill someone and revive them with Edo Tensei. Frieza could blow up as many continents as possible, wreck the planet beyond belief, but he couldn't beat a Zombeh! awesome
well the only way they could even last for any number of seconds/minutes against Frieza is if he decides to let his arrogance get to him and let them attack him for a bit. of course, he'll win.
I'm pretty sure a zombie, even one that can regenerate from being blown to bits can't recover from an attack that can wipe out a continent or in most cases for Frieza, an entire planet.
Kill Madara, make him a zombie. Hide the zombie maker and other valuable contestants in his pocket dimension. Keep the entire force safe, deploy as needed! Being zombies, they'll have the time to deploy their attacks.
Also if Freiza foolishly decides to tank attacks, like he's known to do pretty often, then he could find himself trapped inside his own mind, put in a pocket dimension, or what have you.
And as Madara can teleport, BFR is right out.
Anyone who thinks Freeza has the slightest chance of losing this fight is wrong and needs to leave.
What is his defense against space-warping moves? They don't affect power, they make the space he's at not there. Or genjutsu moves, putting someone in an illusion that causes their real body to just stand there while they think they're doing stuff, then do space-time stuff to finish the job.
From what I'm seeing here, Naruto and Bleach are much more uber than I previously thought. But why are they often listed as losing to DB so often in the past but suddenly not now? Some, especially the OBD, list One Piece as stronger than the other two poster boys of Shonen Jump and yet they still lose to DB.
Originally posted by Esomark
From what I'm seeing here, Naruto and Bleach are much more uber than I previously thought. But why are they often listed as losing to DB so often in the past but suddenly not now? Some, especially the OBD, list One Piece as stronger than the other two poster boys of Shonen Jump and yet they still lose to DB.
Because there's power and then there's power.
Dragon Ball Z has way higher direct power than OP, Naruto, Bleach, and Fairy Tail combined. No question. If you just have them line up and exchange largest-destruction attacks, they lose and lose hard.
However, there's been an increase in funky, non-raw strength related abilities in the recent generation of shounen fight, and Naruto has more than most.
So someone in Naruto or Bleach who relies on raw power is totally screwed against DBZ, but ones with more indirect/non-power related abilities might be able to pull something off. Because not all abilities necessarily care about how tough they are, they just teleport your torso away, or reverse your senses and make you shoot into space, or make you blast yourself.
That's why on the Naruto/Bleach side, we're talking very specific ones, like Madara and Kakashi and Minato, Aizen and Shinji, and not characters who are in-universe considered stronger than them like Pain and Captain General Yamamoto. Because Pain and Yamamoto just blow stuff up (well, not entirely true, Pain steals souls as well, but melee only so that's out), while Minato holds out his hands and makes a barrier that teleports enemy attacks elsewhere, like perhaps into the enemy.
Also, we are talking literally everyone of note from two versus vs just one person. Working together, with planning and full knowledge of abilities, with planetary destruction disallowed. It's not like we're talking verse vs verse.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
As far as I know, no. DBZ is leagues above them in power level and only the most hax of characters are making it 5 seconds into the fight.
Originally posted by Q99
Because there's power and then there's power.
Originally posted by StyleTime
That's about what I was thinkingInteresting points. Do you think they'd be fast enough to mount their offense?
Depends on what strat they use. Q's strat of turning Madara into a zombie, and then storing major players inside his dimension for quick deployment when necessary, is pretty good. Of course, that is predicated upon Madara actually agreeing to this plan (specifically the turning Madara into a Zombie part), which if we're taking personalities into account, won't be happening.
In terms of prep, they have characters like Aizen, Shikamaru & Urahara, who could easily come up with strategies that would leave Freeza open to a counter. Stuff like using Gedo Mazo's Soulrape ability to give Shinji an opening to activate his Shikai in order to leave Freeza open to seeing Aizen's initial release. Which would be an insta-pwn against Freeza, since Aizen has the most hax ability among all players in this thread, and Freeza would have no defense against it.
He'd be left wide open to Kamui, or to BFR via Madara's ability.
Also, I doubt that Freeza will be entering any of his higher forms. For one, he's already got enough power in his base form to take all of them out. And two, him charging up power will leave him open to attacks like Kamui and such.
Alternatively, Aizen will just begin the fight by mindraping Freeza with his usual chatter, thus giving N/B the needed opening. awesome
My main concern is that Frieza, while he can't sense power levels, is an insanely strong telepath (IE he can literally throw mountains with his mind.)
If he stays in mase form, then he would still have his scouter yes? That means detection isn't a problem.
Also, would any of these guys be able to track Frieza tro perform any of their Jutsu? I mean, because of the insane levels of speed involved, not to mention flight, wouldn;t that make most genjustu requires a certain level of concentration on a target for it to work. Example, Tsuyukomi requires at least eye contact. For most Genjutsu it's like finger pointing or other forms of contact in inclanations, but it would be nearly impossible to track Frieza normally, nevermind trying to fire off a Genjustu.
Umm...what exactly do either of these verses have to stop Frieza from just flying into space and blowing the whole planet up.
Any claims about any of the Bleach or Naruto characters using hax power before he can get air born or even just one-shot them all out of annoyance is going to be pretty hard to believe. It should've been the HST vs Frieza instead IMHO.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Umm...what exactly do either of these verses have to stop Frieza from just flying into space and blowing the whole planet up.
It's against the rules.
Also some of the genjutsu/illusions and such might make him not do so, Shinji's sword literally will make him unable to tell up from down, plus without a spaceship that's really not the best method for him (he doesn't have instant transmission) so he'd be unlikely to do it unless badly pressed.
Any claims about any of the Bleach or Naruto characters using hax power before he can get air born or even just one-shot them all out of annoyance is going to be pretty hard to believe. It should've been the HST vs Frieza instead IMHO.
How would adding One Piece help much? They don't have any particular hax that could hurt him, the main thing they have is the Logia to distract him a little. I mean, it'd buy more time for the existing hax characters, but it wouldn't change things too significantly.
And there's a lot of characters, if he's one-shotting people then he's using time for the others to enact their attacks, so that's fine. Also there is at least one person who can redirect big chi blasts back to Freiza, so using big attacks is not without risk.
Darkstorm Zero
My main concern is that Frieza, while he can't sense power levels, is an insanely strong telepath (IE he can literally throw mountains with his mind.)
Well, telekinetic.
Honestly not particularly frightening compared to his chi.
If he stays in mase form, then he would still have his scouter yes? That means detection isn't a problem.
Not too much of a worry. The people that'd ping the highest would be Yamamoto, Aizen, Starrk, etc. for Bleach and Kyuubi, Killerbee, Pain, etc. for Naruto.
I.e. except for Aizen, not the source of the powers that'll actually be useful. The real threats are way down the list, Kakashi, Minato, etc..
Originally posted by Q99
Well, telekinetic.Honestly not particularly frightening compared to his chi.
Not too much of a worry. The people that'd ping the highest would be Yamamoto, Aizen, Starrk, etc. for Bleach and Kyuubi, Killerbee, Pain, etc. for Naruto.
I.e. except for Aizen, not the source of the powers that'll actually be useful. The real threats are way down the list, Kakashi, Minato, etc..
#1: A person wh can toss a mountain at them without even touching it is already well beyond what almost any Naruto character can do.
#2: Kakashi requires that his eyes can track Frieza for kamui to work.
Your going to have to quantify whay Minato can redirect, and how often. I know for a fact that Frieza's energy will last FAR llonger than Minato's chakra.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#1: A person wh can toss a mountain at them without even touching it is already well beyond what almost any Naruto character can do.
So? There's no way this is going to be won by power anyway.
And unlike his chi blasts, a mountain is something that could be deal with (KB or Naruto blasts it, or of course one of the Bleach characters like Ichigo does, they can hand that stuff pretty easily).
#2: Kakashi requires that his eyes can track Frieza for kamui to work.
That's what genjutsu, Bleach illusions, etc. are for. Get him to stand in place just a brief moment.
Also, since he doesn't know about the kamui or that anything arrayed against him can hurt, he may simply stop moving on his own. It's not like he's always going at speed in battle, especially not when going by power level the enemy's attacks can't hurt him. He likes to just stand in one place and charge attacks occasionally.
Your going to have to quantify whay Minato can redirect, and how often. I know for a fact that Frieza's energy will last FAR llonger than Minato's chakra.
It's a space warp, he's teleporting the attack. He did it against the Kyuubi's menace ball, but since it's just a barrier that makes stuff that hits it *here* go *there*, the power of the attack shouldn't matter too much.
And hopefully it'd be done so that the attack hits Frieza and he damages himself (ala, well, what he actually did against Goku with the cutting disks). It's not about trying to outlast Frieza's power with his chakra (which he can't, it doesn't last all that long), it's about maybe getting him with his own Death Ball.
Oh my God, how this thread has lasted this long I will never know.
Freeza can casually, and at a speed which the Naruto and Bleach characters would be unable to perceive, glass the area in a 1,000+ mile radius. Friggin Nappa could do that, it would be effortless for Freeza, and no one would survive, now could Minato redirect the attack since it would just be a gigantic explosion that would not even hurt Freeza.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh my God, how this thread has lasted this long I will never know.Freeza can casually, and at a speed which the Naruto and Bleach characters would be unable to perceive, glass the area in a 1,000+ mile radius. Friggin Nappa could do that, it would be effortless for Freeza, and no one would survive, now could Minato redirect the attack since it would just be a gigantic explosion that would not even hurt Freeza.
And one of the Naruto characters can phase so that'd go right through him, and he can carry others too.
Frieza's favorite move for doing so, also, is the Death Ball (iirc the only move he's used for that type of thing), so redirection is a threat.
Frieza has power, the opposition has hax.
Originally posted by Q99
And one of the Naruto characters can phase so that'd go right through him,
Which is irrelevant because, as shown, he needs to cognitively decide to use the ability in order for it work.
The man lost his arm twice and was nearly killed by people who are literally multiple magnitudes slower and weaker than Freeza is. He/She/It could vaporize the landscape faster than Madara could even conceive the notion to use his phasing ability.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Which is irrelevant because, as shown, he needs to cognitively decide to use the ability in order for it work.
He keeps it on by default in combat.
The man lost his arm twice and was nearly killed by people who are literally multiple magnitudes slower and weaker than Freeza is. He/She/It could vaporize the landscape faster than Madara could even conceive the notion to use his phasing ability.
Both times when he was attacked in precise response to him de-phasing to attack. You know, not something happening when Frieza just up and blasts everything.
They have planning, he's going to start out phased and with needed people in his pocket dimension.
Heck, that's perfect- Frieza blasts everything. He then can't see due to dust clouds and for all he knows they're dead, Madara unphases Kakashi* and puts him nearby but out of sight (probably using the ground-hiding jutsu they both have. Pair him with a Hyuga to give him coordinates and they can even do this while there's no LOS at all), Kakashi jams on kamui.
Frieza doesn't have any way to sense where they are within giant dust clouds caused by an explosion except for the scouter, and that's a mechanical device that takes a second or two to detect stuff, much slower than his own speed.