Its clear Xavier is the superior telepath, more powerful, more skilled. The point is stated many times by numerous sources, plus Xavier has far higher end feats.
This isnt even a debate. Emma doesnt start off in her diamond form therefore before she has a chance to, Xavier engages her in a tp battle and then finishes her off. Simple.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'm going to do this line by line because you're ridiculous.
Your claim, that the last attack was meant to shatter Xavier's mind. Oh really show me. Please show me where Exodus in the fight claimed to do that. Show me where Exodus was motivated to destroy Xavier. The issue states the exact opposite.What is Exodus doing? Psychic illusions.
Is Exodus trying to destroy him here? Coerce him to use his powers against humans.
Oh and here's where you claim Exodus was trying to destroy his mind. What does he ask? Yield or what? He'll torture him with more illusions.
Oh and here's Exodus's reason. Not to fight to coerce. I'd also scan the last page of the previous issue for you but I'm lazy so have look. His motives was not to fight. As proved by this issue by not crushing Charles head telekinetically.
I took a while to respond to this because I wanted to re-read the books to make sure I wasn't missing anything and I had to download them.
Exodus says he'll destroy what's left of xavier's mind in the end XML 209 as they engage, not in XML 210 when they exchange the last attacks as I had thought, so I was mistaken on this particular point and concede on it, exodus primary motivation was changing chuck's mind. What remains is that a weakened X beat Exodus down to his knees on his own in a telepathy fight and once they were done, he plainly told Exodus that if he raised a hand against him again, he'd shut his powers off permanently with posthypnotic commands, which means he had already planted the ways to destroy him while they were fighting. A permanent power shut down is more impressive than emma frost distracting him so he couldnt use his tk while dust actually defeated him.
wrong. he sent them visions through their dreams and planted posthypnotic commands in their minds while they slept so he could make them sabotage the complex's defenses. it wasn't sentinel that turned them off, he planted false memories of them switching them on and later, when their minds were shield by tp blockers overseen by exodus himself, he triggered the commands with spoken words and convinced Amelia to stand down without resorting to his powers.
Oh and in the later story you are refering to. Omega Sentinel switched off the Acolytes TP-blockers. However, you are wrong again. Him and Exodus did not engage in battle and he did not hack Exodus's dreams. So where is this schooled Exodus thing coming from?
The only minds he didn't rig were those of exodus and amelia, but as the story indicates, only because he didn't want to. Exodus says to the acolytes that Xavier had done things to "our minds" not to "your minds" and although chuck later reveals he had not left traps within Exodus's mind, exodus himself apparently had no way of even knowing if he had as he presumed his mind had been rigged as well. It's reasonable to assume he had sent Exodus the dreams as all the dialogues indicated they all had dreamed them, including the words that come out of exodus's mouth. chuck didnt wire amelia either but she still got the dreams.
he did school them, showed he could come and go as he pleased, defeated them all tactically and convinced Exodus to lay down his arms with five minutes of conversation, effectively disbanding the acolytes.
Never claimed he cant possibly be defeated, just that emma and miss sinister needed sneak attacks and booby traps. Xavier's feat linking the minds of the skrull empire, gathering their thoughts and feelins and projecting them into galactus is far more impressivbe than Emma's skrull telepaths or her wading throught the residual thoughts rogue absorbed during the mumudrai affair. I don't even think they were superskrulls like the others, just plain skrull telepaths like those human telepaths shield uses.
WWH: X-Men Emma blocked him. Legacy he didn't even see Emma coming. You claim that he can only be beaten when he's snuck up on. That is not true. Jack of Diamonds anyone?She is more consistent then him I give him the slight edge in TP because of his status nothing else. Emma punked Super Skrull telepaths 7 of them on Cerebra's designed to take on the X-Men. Charles gets taken down by ONE.
LOLOLOL, Charles did not purge him from his body. Read please before you post. Mr. Sinister kicked Charles ass on the astral plane in X-Men Legacy Sins of a father. Gambit and Sebastian Shaw destroyed Sinisters machine. Hence freeing Xavier. What books are you reading? Legacy is not a run you should be using to make a case for Charles.
pffftwahahahahahaha god what a ****ing joke. you are the one that needs to re-read it. Xavier duelled and purged sinister from his body and mind all on his own. the only thing destroying the machine acomplished was preventing sinister from reemerging into Cain's or Shaw's body. This is confirmed by the plot that explains what the machine actually does in XML 214 and through dialogue in xml 215 as Shaw explains to Gambit his plan to wreck the machine so sinister cant come back through himself or cain should xavier manage to drive MS out. When the machine is destroyed, Xavier says to Sinister "your hear that sinister? that was the sound of your exit strategy breaking into a million pieces ", then he proceeds to eliminate him with his own will and power. What comic did you read? lol
number of times, emma took sinister down? zero
you may claim exodus wasnt giving it his all, but sinister was fighting to erase chuck
everyone knows he's above her. she knows it, he knows it, he even commented on it when she booby trapped scott's mind to get him on the ropes, her only hope of doing so.She's been cited as his rival in power more then once and in the same Legacy issue where she has him rolling on the floor pleading. She has blocked him in WWH: X-Men.
You lowball Emma's telepathy for god knows what reason. She's his rival he'd be hardpressed to take her down. Your knowledge on Xavier is also lacking. I know what your previous user name is too. You're the same one who claimed Xavier was a saint, and that he was retconned into a douche. Only showing your lack of knowledge on the X-Men as he was always a douche.
my previous user name?
hahahahaha, I never used any. couldn't check it before runnign your mouth could you? or maybe you meant I am a sock, prove that then, go ahead and report me, troll. I wont even get into the merits of your claim about him having always been a douche or not because
1: that was likely not me as you remember a different name and I don't recall that at all, and
2: moral judgements are entirely subjective, so your assessment that your opinion of his previous morality displays knowledge of the character is just another sad joke.
consider a face off what you will then. rolling on the floor huh? wonder if there was any context behind that and if the story makes it clear he is stronger than her through her own implicit admission when he tells her she can't win and she replies that she used scott's mind to lay traps.
Furthermore, Xavier and Emma have never faced off. The only thing you could even consider a "fight" would be when she kidnapped him in the UXM #129, when she blocked him in WWH: X-Men and when she had him rolling on the floor pleading in X-Men Legacy #215/#216.
So don't give that crap. I told you already I give him the slight win on nostalgia and his status in the MU. Other then that the writers themselves have her as his rivher al in power. He himself has called her an Omega Level Telepath and a Psi of the Highest order.We all know she isnt an omega level mutant, that was a writer **** up and one of a time missuse of an otherwise stablished term. maybe omega level telepath just refers to the strongest class of telepath, but we know that's wrong because legion and jean are telepaths who are actually omega level mutants and far above emma. She is strong, no doubt, but she is not chuck's rival, he'd win consistently against her.
Plus in this thread she just punches his face off in Diamond Form every single time. [/B]
Originally posted by 753
number of times, emma took sinister down? zero
I think that because we saw her shut down his powers, as well as screwing with several other high end telepaths (simultaneously!), from half way around the globe without cerebra... we probably should be able to draw conclusions from there.
Originally posted by 753
I took a while to respond to this because I wanted to re-read the books to make sure I wasn't missing anything and I had to download them.Exodus says he'll destroy what's left of xavier's mind in the end XML 209 as they engage, not in XML 210 when they exchange the last attacks as I had thought, so I was mistaken on this particular point and concede on it, exodus primary motivation was changing chuck's mind. What remains is that a weakened X beat Exodus down to his knees on his own in a telepathy fight and once they were done, he plainly told Exodus that if he raised a hand against him again, he'd shut his powers off permanently with posthypnotic commands, which means he had already planted the ways to destroy him while they were fighting. A permanent power shut down is more impressive than emma frost distracting him so he couldnt use his tk while dust actually defeated him.
Xavier broke out of Exodus's psychic illusion, I repeat again that was not a telepathic fight as reiterated by Exodus in #209 and X-Men #210. An that was an empty threat that Charles didn't follow through with and also quite baseless considering the problems he's had with Exodus in the past. Meanwhile Emma did shut down Xavier's powers in X-Men Legacy 215/216.
wrong. he sent them visions through their dreams and planted posthypnotic commands in their minds while they slept so he could make them sabotage the complex's defenses. it wasn't sentinel that turned them off, he planted false memories of them switching them on and later, when their minds were shield by tp blockers overseen by exodus himself, he triggered the commands with spoken words and convinced Amelia to stand down without resorting to his powers.
I looked again, correct. He placed post-hypnotic triggers. 'xcept that doesn't mean he got past Exodus's psi-shielding of the Acolytes. He didn't assault them directly because Exodus was protecting them, he had to take them out by planting post-hypnotic triggers that could be activated by words.
The only minds he didn't rig were those of exodus and amelia, but as the story indicates, only because he didn't want to. Exodus says to the acolytes that Xavier had done things to "our minds" not to "your minds" and although chuck later reveals he had not left traps within Exodus's mind, exodus himself apparently had no way of even knowing if he had as he presumed his mind had been rigged as well. It's reasonable to assume he had sent Exodus the dreams as all the dialogues indicated they all had dreamed them, including the words that come out of exodus's mouth. chuck didnt wire amelia either but she still got the dreams.he did school them, showed he could come and go as he pleased, defeated them all tactically and convinced Exodus to lay down his arms with five minutes of conversation, effectively disbanding the acolytes.
He didn't rig Exodus's mind because he couldn't. There's no indicaiton that he could hence the post-hypnotic triggers, as even Emma was able to sniff Charles's tamperings in Scotts head. The reason why he didn't rig Voughts mind is their history together. He sent them visions, which I'm sure a Psi of Exodus's caliber is more then happy to accept out of curiousity and/or considering the offer he made to Charles the last time they met.
Never claimed he cant possibly be defeated, just that emma and miss sinister needed sneak attacks and booby traps. Xavier's feat linking the minds of the skrull empire, gathering their thoughts and feelins and projecting them into galactus is far more impressivbe than Emma's skrull telepaths or her wading throught the residual thoughts rogue absorbed during the mumudrai affair. I don't even think they were superskrulls like the others, just plain skrull telepaths like those human telepaths shield uses.
Emma has always been seen as Xavier's rival.
Those were Dreamers Skrulls built to take on the X-Men Telepaths that included Charles, Jean, Psylocke. BTW there were 8 billion Skrull minds, there were 8 billion minds in Rogue after the mumudrai affair.
pffftwahahahahahaha god what a ****ing joke. you are the one that needs to re-read it. Xavier duelled and purged sinister from his body and mind all on his own. the only thing destroying the machine acomplished was preventing sinister from reemerging into Cain's or Shaw's body. This is confirmed by the plot that explains what the machine actually does in XML 214 and through dialogue in xml 215 as Shaw explains to Gambit his plan to wreck the machine so sinister cant come back through himself or cain should xavier manage to drive MS out. When the machine is destroyed, Xavier says to Sinister "your hear that sinister? that was the sound of your exit strategy breaking into a million pieces ", then he proceeds to eliminate him with his own will and power. What comic did you read? lol
Umm sorry but you're being ridiculous. The explanation of the machine is on the summary page of X-Men Legacy 214. Sinister was written into Charles and the others DNA the machine was activating/facilitating the transformation. The transformation wasn't complete yet because Charles's mind was still alive trying to hold off as best as he could (And Charles was doing pretty poorly up to the point of the machine being destroyed). You can also see that it wasn't completed yet because Charles body hadn't fully transformed. Also Sinister's exit strategy Charles was referring to was Nathanials "exit strategy" from beyond the grave. Not transferring himself into one of the others. Why would Sinister give a shit anyway if the DNA transformation in Charles was already completed? The machine broke the transformation cutting Sinster off hence Sinister's "Noooo". Charles just cleaned the mess.
everyone knows he's above her. she knows it, he knows it, he even commented on it when she booby trapped scott's mind to get him on the ropes, her only hope of doing so.consider a face off what you will then. rolling on the floor huh? wonder if there was any context behind that and if the story makes it clear he is stronger than her through her own implicit admission when he tells her she can't win and she replies that she used scott's mind to lay traps.
Her reply was that it's "moot point" as they would not be fighting.
moot point
A debatable question, an issue open to argument; also, an irrelevant question, a matter of no importance. For example, Whether Shakespeare actually wrote the poem remains a moot point among critics , or It's a moot point whether the chicken or the egg came first . This term originated in British law where it described a point for discussion in a moot , or assembly, of law students. By the early 1700s it was being used more loosely in the present sense.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot+point
We all know she isnt an omega level mutant, that was a writer **** up and one of a time missuse of an otherwise stablished term. maybe omega level telepath just refers to the strongest class of telepath, but we know that's wrong because legion and jean are telepaths who are actually omega level mutants and far above emma. She is strong, no doubt, but she is not chuck's rival, he'd win consistently against her.
Except Carey even cites her as his rival in the re-cap page of the XL 216. Also he calls her a psi of the highest order under Claremonts pen. And he calls her an omega level telepath under Fractions pen.
Charles is not an Omega Level Mutant he's an Omega Level Telepath. So you're confusing the terms not Fraction. It's like Omega Level Fire powers the best of the best.
And in Wells New Mutants Emma kills Legion telepathically in the divergent timeline where the X-Men die and Magik has to come back and change the future. So clearly the writers view her as an Omega Level Telepath.
Cosmic being Phoenix's are another story.
I would give him the slight edge in a telepathic battle as I stated before but again based on nostalgia and his status. But I believe Emma can hold him off and then go diamond and squash his head with her diamond heel.
Also just like to show you this, you've probably already seen the scan of Emma being called possibly Xavier level in New Mutants. That was the first hint of her being called that. The second was when he did it by calling her a psi of the highest order.
Heck there was even this:
Originally posted by ExodusCloakIf you're wondering how it ends, well Emma and Xavier are fighting each other off panel. While the other X-Men get trounced by the brotherhood until the mutant they're searching for blows up in energy and stops the fight.
