Dr. Doom/Kang vs. Dr. Who
Dr. Doom and Kang are messing with the time stream and are threatening to collapse reality. It's time for our favorite madman with a box to step in. One month of prep for Dr. Who to take out the team they are unaware of his attempt. Dr. Who is bent on killing the pair as it is too dangerous to just stop them or lock them away.
Keeping narrative "truths" for each character in mind, the Doctor, properly, doesn't deal in "magic", though his stories/show-history provide narrative means for him to deal with such things. Doom's magic doesn't equal an auto-win, given that context.
However, the Doctor having "prep", as such, isn't really the key to his winning: while he is good at long-term planning (as his 7th incarnation indicated, handily), his greatest strength lies in his spontaneousness -- he's better on the fly, more often than not, than when he tries to plot things out, and that's how he pulls most of his wins out of his ass.
Still, though, Doom is a beast, and his "narrative" comparison in "Whovian" terms would be his being the Master... *after* the Master, say, usurped Rassilon's power.
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In forum terms, this would end in a split -- both characters have "trump power" for winning: Doom's cunning and magic makes for wins, and the Doctor's cleverness backed by a god-level temporal being/"vehicle" makes for his. On a narrative level, the Doctor "wins", in terms of stopping Doom, but Doom escapes and/or returns to raise hell at another time, thus being "undefeatable", and costing the Doctor dearly in terms of attrition.
Kang, to be honest, is a non-factor in this, and is overshadowed by the two primary combatants (no offense to Kang, but this is a case where the *narrative* truth simply is too great to ignore, and overrides the Forum Rules, contextually, due to the demonstrated feats involved).
The thread stips make this a bit unfair. In a no-prep scenario, The Doctor loses this every time. In a prep scenario for both, we have no real way of knowing and we'd be talking simply in terms of "something out of 10." Prep for only one side obviously favors that side. Even with magic to aid Doom, the Doctor with a month's prep easily trumps Doom standing around idly.
Originally posted by DigiPretty much.
The thread stips make this a bit unfair. In a no-prep scenario, The Doctor loses this every time. In a prep scenario for both, we have no real way of knowing and we'd be talking simply in terms of "something out of 10." Prep for only one side obviously favors that side. Even with magic to aid Doom, the Doctor with a month's prep easily trumps Doom standing around idly.
Although with equal prep I'd say Doom takes it alone, adding in Kang makes it a sure thing.
Originally posted by Mindset
Pretty much.Although with equal prep I'd say Doom takes it alone, adding in Kang makes it a sure thing.
Both Doctor and Doom can claim universe affecting/destroying prep feats, so at that point I don't think adding in another player makes much difference. It would be whose doomsday device you believe in more.
Not sure I understand that reasoning. Both of them with prep could potentially wreck a universe (or multiverse depending on interpretations). What is Kang bringing to the table that would trump that or get in their way? If he has another universe-wrecking plan, then great, that gives the team a 66% chance that theirs would work better or before Doctor's, instead of just a 50% one. Otherwise he's just a footnote. Powerful or not, if they simply go beyond his level in prep, he's not really going to help with anything.
Same with magic. Unless it's magic that can counter a doomsday device, how is it relevant. I realize it means he's more versatile, but if the power level is simply too great, versatility means nothing.
Originally posted by DigiKang adds versatility, just like magic does. If both the Doctor and Doom have the same destructive abilities, versatility is what's going to be the deciding factor imo. Versatility has shown to trump power multiple times, especially magic which becomes pretty hax in that regard.
Not sure I understand that reasoning. Both of them with prep could potentially wreck a universe (or multiverse depending on interpretations). What is Kang bringing to the table that would trump that or get in their way? If he has another universe-wrecking plan, then great, that gives the team a 66% chance that theirs would work better or before Doctor's, instead of just a 50% one. Otherwise he's just a footnote. Powerful or not, if they simply go beyond his level in prep, he's not really going to help with anything.Same with magic. Unless it's magic that can counter a doomsday device, how is it relevant. I realize it means he's more versatile, but if the power level is simply too great, versatility means nothing.
Talron, when did Doom have problems with time travel?
Originally posted by Mindset
Versatility has shown to trump power multiple times
Only to a point. Again, what does versatility give you when the Doctor can literally create a "push the button and the universe and timestream goes boom" weapon?
Originally posted by Mindset
Btw, I don't see how making universe destroying devices would be beneficial for any team, especially the Doctor in this thread.
The finale of the most recent season comes to mind, where the TARDIS is rigged to erase all of time. The Doctor reverses the process but is caught on the "wrong" side of the reversal and is (temporarily) erased. No reason he couldn't invert it to make himself the only thing that survives. Or a weapon that is keyed to his DNA signature, but will desotry literally everything else....which, granted, he'd have to reverse-engineer from Dalek tech (that he's easily manipulated and reversed, mind you, so it's believable that he could reproduce it). Actually, scratch that, he did the same feat earlier in his run but didn't have time to key it to Dalek DNA...instead it would've simply destroyed the planet and everything surrounding it. And it took him about 10 minutes with some random ship wiring to create it. With any more time he flatly admitted he could key it to any particular target and nothing else.
It just takes some imagination, and a good knowledge of his canon. There's probably other examples I'm forgetting. And Doom undoubtedly could bring his own.
Since the scheme is a time-based one, the real question here is what Doom brings to the table. Even Zarrko nearly succeeded in rewriting the multiverse via time manipulation, and his time knowledge << Kang's; Kang has even said that that sort of thing is child's play, and that it doesn't interest him because he likes to conquer. If it were really Kang's goal to collapse the universe through time manipulation, there is only ONE person who could stop him: Kang. Besides, he is extremely unusual.
Originally posted by Simbon
Since the scheme is a time-based one, the real question here is what Doom brings to the table. Even Zarrko nearly succeeded in rewriting the multiverse via time manipulation, and his time knowledge << Kang's; Kang has even said that that sort of thing is child's play, and that it doesn't interest him because he likes to conquer. If it were really Kang's goal to collapse the universe through time manipulation, there is only ONE person who could stop him: Kang. Besides, he is extremely unusual.
That's...actually just silly logic. Yes, the only one who could stop Kang is Kang himself, nevermind anyone else in the thread with time manip feats to match or beat anything he's done.
I stand by what I said earlier. With lopsided prep, the person with the lopsided prep wins handily. With equal prep, it's whose high-end prep feats you put more weight on. Forum consensus would side with Doom there because there's better knowledge, but it's hardly obvious for those who are familiar with all 3.
Also, what would collapsing the universe do? I provided actual feats to suggest the Doctor could wipe out the entirety of the universe, minus himself. Does Kang have that specific feat?
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